To have discplined my SILs children as she was doing nothing...??

[Shinyballsandtinsel]

Two days ago, DH, me, our three DCs (9, 11, 13), granny, SIL and her two DCs went out for a meal in the evening (early about 7.00pm) for one of granny's landmark birthdays. We went to a chain pub, which later on turns into a club with bouncers on the door, no children after 9pm etc. It is in a town well known for stag/hen nights, however this time of year it is mostly Christmas parties.

It was very very busy, behind our table there were two long tables of about twenty people each, which looked like work do's. The bar was also very busy - there were steps leading down to the restaurant bit from the bar.

Our food arrived quite quickly. When we had finished our meal, we were waiting for the staff to bring plates for the birthday cake. My SILs older DC started running around and around the table very fast (aged 5yrs). SIL sat there doing nothing. Then the her younger DC started doing it also (aged 3yrs), whilst they were running the 3 year old ran into the legs of a fully laden waitress who nearly dropped all her plates. SIL still just sat there. They were running within close proximity of the people sitting on the end of the work do tables.

SIL was completely oblivious to it all, so I grabbed the 3yr old on his next run around, and plonked him down on a chair beside me, and said in quite a firm voice "sit down now, those people are having their dinner and Granny is about to have her cake". He immediately burst into tears, SIL glared at me, grabbed him on her lap. The 5 year old continued to run around the table, and then ran up the steps on her own into the bar area, my DH went to get her back, when she arrived back he put her onto her chair, she immediatley slid off under the table and started the running around thing again.

They have behaved like this before, I often make excuses for not going out when they are going to be there, as the children's behaviour, or rather the mother's complete oblivion to their behaviour actually winds me up. In the past she also literally just sits there whilst her children run around other people's tables, talk to strangers eating, ask if they can try some of their food (I kid you not!) and generally act as if they are in a playground. SIL has said in the past she thinks it cheers people up to see her kids smiley faces, and they are so freespirited and cute nobody could get annoyed with them..... Hence why I usually make my excuses, but as it was granny's landmark birthday couldn't get out of it.

Anyway, the saga continues - we all take it in turns to do Christmas dinner, this year is SILs turn to do it at her house. Today DH has received a telephone call to say that we are no longer invited for christmas day, as SIL is upset that I took it upon myself discipline her child, and it will ruin their Christmas if I do so again.

I am of the opinion that I am quite pleased not to have to go around there, and am happy to break away from the big family Christmas and start having Christmases at home with just our family, but Granny has now rung up very upset, and asked DH if I can apologise and make an excuse, i.e. say I was stressed at work or something.

I am not happy to do this, as I am not sorry. AIBU to not aplogise even though it will probably upset MIL?

I think it is unfortunate that there is now bad feeling between the adults, I don't think that it is the OPs fault, the SIL is at fault, she has escalated it a number of times. To describe it as a rift maybe takes it too far.

I had a similar situation with my SIL, I felt that she has been completely rude, unreasonable and a bully which started with my wedding and continued through the birth of my first child. As a couple, DH and I (she is his sister) saw her as little as possible, mainly at family events where I was polite. My PILs were aware of the problem. We get on a lot better now, have nights out, been away on holiday etc. this is due to a number of issues, primarily though her DS gets on with my DS1 really well and vice versa so she has to enable that relationship been 'forced' to curb her behaviour, plus DH intervened. However I was also more robust with her, didn't take any crap so she backed off, any snide comment I jumped on and repudiated, not rudely just firmly. We wouldn't have a better relationship now if I had just accepted her behaviour, TBH why should I, I have enough stuff going on without having to deal with an adult behaving appallingly.

Anyway back to OP, why should she and her DH have to put up with this, I am all for allowing people to have their foibles, just not at the expense of others. Given the SIL behaviour, this was always going to happen, it just happened over MIL meal, could just have easily been a broken lego toy.

The trouble with this keeping the peace stuff, is it always falls on one or two people while everyone else can be as unreasonable or oblivious as they like (speaking as the person with the OP role in my extended family). I think that's why some of us are responding so positively to this tale, apart from the robots comment being inadvertently very very funny! In my family we have created a bit of a monster two actually by constantly tactfully working our way round difficult behaviour. I admire both the OP and her DH for saying enough's enough!

No update as yet. Stoney silence. I suspect this is not the end of it, not least because me and DH are the only people who will mind her "spirited" children for her....

Don't get angry at MaryChallone, everyone is entitled to their own opinion, personally Mary I would not have apologised to my BIL if I was you, why should I give in to bullying and emotional blackmail? As said before, to carry on is to enable her, and quite frankly, for me to aplogise for a)something I was not sorry for and b) when I did not mean it is against my principles.

I don't think my behaviour was passive aggressive, I tried to disengage myself so that it didn't become actually aggressive, however as others have pointed out, SIL attempted to "bait" me so that I could get the blame for escalating things.

If it creates a family rift, so be it - unfortunately you can't choose your relatives but you don't have to let them ride roughshod over you regardless of the fallout.

"But I just think life's too short to fall out over something like this. It really is, and if the OP had been the bigger person, it would all be over now."

"Doesn't mean it's right, but isn't it just something you do to maintain cordial relations in families and avoid such dramas?"

Mary I've been thinking about what you posted and trying to work out why I disagree, because what you say is eminently reasonable. I think, for me, what it boils down to is this - what is the likely outcome to actions A and B, where A is to stand your ground and B is to be the bigger person?

You see being the bigger person as having a positive outcome, with cordial relations maintained and dramas avoided. I see it as reinforcing the belief in the unreasonable person (in this case, SIL) that they are right, since their behaviour is being rewarded with capitulation. And this belief leading to ever more unreasonable behaviour in the future. Or, making a rod for your own back, as it were.

You see OP standing her ground as having a negative outcome, with a family rift being established. I see it as positive; creating a TEMPORARY family rift, but with the potential to be healed in the long run by the SIL realising that she needs to consider the feelings of others (OP was friends with this woman before marrying her brother, she must have some good points), which will lead to better family relations.

Yes, there is a rift at the moment. But putting the sticking plaster of capitulation over it is not the answer IMO. The wound has to be cleaned out first if the situation is not to fester, all cordial smooth on the surface but seething underneath.

I read this when it first happened and thought SIL was being really over precious. I wondered why it had reached over 700 posts and love the updates - well done your DH!

YY to whereyouleftit

Well done to shiny and her husband .

Op's SIL reminds me of Cartman from South Park, just doesnt seem to get it when people are actually honest.

I agree with whereyouleftit. If you give in to bad behaviour over and over then you just reinforce it and enable the person to keep acting that way. She has probably been allowed to act badly all her life and everyone smoothes it over for the sake of family peace. Of course she isn't going to like it if someone refuses to roll over and of course she will escalate it in an attempt to make everyone acquiesce and if you do then it will reward her bad behaviour.

Yes it is going to cause some problems, possibly big ones but unless you want to re-play this scene over and over through the years you have to put your foot down. If she is acting like a tantrumming toddler or a bratty kid then you do what you would do with a toddler. State your expectations and set up fair limits and don't back down. Let her pitch a fit until she calms down and acts reasonably.

If SIL was generally an easy person and this was a one off thing I would agree with the playing nice, being the bigger person and put it down to a hot button issue. It does not sound like that is the case at all and this is a pattern of behaviour.

I think you are all as bad as each other TBH.Talk about making a mountain out of a molehill and being precious!!
The person I feel sorry for is your MIL who has had her birthday tainted by all these dramatics.
First you demonise young children for behaving like young children.AS many posters have testified some kids that age find easy to sit at table for quite a while and behave for others it is imposssible.Not because they are badly parented, just because that is the way they are.
The meal was at a bad time and at a bad venue for lively little ones like this.You say the SIL invited herself, but she is your mother in laws DAUGHTER- of course she wants to be there on her mother's landmark birthday!! And of course your MIL wants her there and her so-called unruly children .You are forgetting that to her they are not 'unruly brats', they are her daughter's babies who she will love as though they are her own.
Why did you make the LO cry, I am very sceptical, when you say you weren't sharp with him/her -otherwise why cry?
And as for your DH!! Telling his own sister to 'fuck off you silly cow!' I am speechless! What a pathetic excuse for a man!

oldpeculiar are you SiL!

This really is the thread that keeps on giving

Hahaa,looks like your Sil has tracked you down Shiney

Hahaha oldpeculiar must be the SIL from Hell!!! I have so enjoyed this thread. OP your DH is the exact opposite of what she says. oldpeculiar have a

I was joking when I assumed oldpeculiar was SiL but her post does read like it's personal and emotional .

Maybe it really is Shiney's SiL from hell

I think that too often, 'keeping the peace', and 'being the bigger person', means allowing your own feelings to be trampled for the sake of other people being able to do as they merrily please.

I used to be the kind of person who always just 'absorbed' the bad behaviour of others, and never challenged them on it, and it led to a great deal of pent-up anger and depression in the end.

Now I believe in firmly setting my own boundaries, and not allowing anyone to treat me in a way that makes me miserable.

I believe in challenging and not tolerating bad behaviour, family, friend, or foe.

Sugar I think you where right first time! Oldpeculair's post reads like barely restrained frustration whilst desperately trying to justify Sil's actions!

Oldpeculiar you can have my 3 yr if want. He spends most of the time at the moment crying because A) he can't have his own way and B) because he's awake.

I agree I don't understand why MIL didn't just explain that she was having dinner with OP family. As they are older so yes it can be a different type of conversation.

SIL lucky I've never been eating out while her children have been running around and annoying other people. As both she and her children would have had a flee in their ears about how to behave.

Yes. I find the best course of action when your sister in law tells you your kids are Robots with no character is to bend over with KICK ME tattooed on my arse.

And i don't feel sorry for MIL either. She should have been the one to say when they were having the meal "Slow Down! Stop running. It's dangerous with waiters carrying hot food etc"

"AS many posters have testified some kids that age find easy to sit at table for quite a while and behave for others it is imposssible.Not because they are badly parented, just because that is the way they are."
And the children who are like that AND are not badly parented are simply not put into the position where their restlessness will become an issue. They are taken to soft play or, at a push, Pizza Hut. But the ones who are badly parented ARE put in that position by their feckless parents who then ignore their behaviour fondly imagine everyone finds their behaviour charming. And as many posters have testified, they don't find it charming.

oldpeculiar So insulting OP's kids twice is what a nice person does is it, if my sister said that about my DD, i'd tell her to fuck off too.

For him to say that to his sister, she musta pissed him off.

And do you know kids at all, my niece cried at me the other day because i stopped her playing with the dog bowl.

OldPeculiar. There is absolutely no reason that any child can't sit still. They do it at nursery, they do it at school. It's not a difficult ask! If you cant keep your child still, thats your fault. Learn to parent better. Nobody else needs to put up with it. A restaurant is no place for annoying brats, believe me! It is dangerous to the child and everyone else.
OP didn't invite her SIL, she wanted a meal alone with granny and her own babies. There was nothing to stop SIL organising her own party. Instead she gatecrashed ops!
If you don't find the whole thing unreasonable and rude, I'd suggest that maybe you have no idea about social boundaries and etiquette!

Or if you have one that finds it so difficult to sit nicely and for some reason you end up being in that situation then you (or DH) usually spend the bulk of your evening sitting outside while DC runs around until the food comes and then after while everyone is having a quiet coffee.

I couldn't imagine having a child like that and just sitting there and letting my kid run riot.

If my daughter tried to run riot, i'd swoop her out the restaurant and demanding she say sorry, its not hard to distract them or teach them to behaviour.