To have discplined my SILs children as she was doing nothing...??

[Shinyballsandtinsel]

Two days ago, DH, me, our three DCs (9, 11, 13), granny, SIL and her two DCs went out for a meal in the evening (early about 7.00pm) for one of granny's landmark birthdays. We went to a chain pub, which later on turns into a club with bouncers on the door, no children after 9pm etc. It is in a town well known for stag/hen nights, however this time of year it is mostly Christmas parties.

It was very very busy, behind our table there were two long tables of about twenty people each, which looked like work do's. The bar was also very busy - there were steps leading down to the restaurant bit from the bar.

Our food arrived quite quickly. When we had finished our meal, we were waiting for the staff to bring plates for the birthday cake. My SILs older DC started running around and around the table very fast (aged 5yrs). SIL sat there doing nothing. Then the her younger DC started doing it also (aged 3yrs), whilst they were running the 3 year old ran into the legs of a fully laden waitress who nearly dropped all her plates. SIL still just sat there. They were running within close proximity of the people sitting on the end of the work do tables.

SIL was completely oblivious to it all, so I grabbed the 3yr old on his next run around, and plonked him down on a chair beside me, and said in quite a firm voice "sit down now, those people are having their dinner and Granny is about to have her cake". He immediately burst into tears, SIL glared at me, grabbed him on her lap. The 5 year old continued to run around the table, and then ran up the steps on her own into the bar area, my DH went to get her back, when she arrived back he put her onto her chair, she immediatley slid off under the table and started the running around thing again.

They have behaved like this before, I often make excuses for not going out when they are going to be there, as the children's behaviour, or rather the mother's complete oblivion to their behaviour actually winds me up. In the past she also literally just sits there whilst her children run around other people's tables, talk to strangers eating, ask if they can try some of their food (I kid you not!) and generally act as if they are in a playground. SIL has said in the past she thinks it cheers people up to see her kids smiley faces, and they are so freespirited and cute nobody could get annoyed with them..... Hence why I usually make my excuses, but as it was granny's landmark birthday couldn't get out of it.

Anyway, the saga continues - we all take it in turns to do Christmas dinner, this year is SILs turn to do it at her house. Today DH has received a telephone call to say that we are no longer invited for christmas day, as SIL is upset that I took it upon myself discipline her child, and it will ruin their Christmas if I do so again.

I am of the opinion that I am quite pleased not to have to go around there, and am happy to break away from the big family Christmas and start having Christmases at home with just our family, but Granny has now rung up very upset, and asked DH if I can apologise and make an excuse, i.e. say I was stressed at work or something.

I am not happy to do this, as I am not sorry. AIBU to not aplogise even though it will probably upset MIL?

So that includes Granny and OP's DH, right? They didn't put a stop to it, did they? Not clear how much they are supporting OP now, too.

When one of the children ran into the bar area and danger, OP's DH went and got her. When the 3 year old nearly knocked down a waitress OP got him.

If I read correctly, the rest was just bad behaviour but not directly dangerous. OP and DH's own children weren't in danger, they were actually fishing their DN's from dangerous situations while mum sat on her arse. Don't see the comparison.

But I stand by it. If you're happy for your kid to be burned, concussed, badly cut by falling knives OR cause that kind of suffering on others just so you can relax with a cuppa because you just respect your child's SPIRIT? Then nope, you don't deserve to be a parent in my book.

Parents protect their children. They do their best to make sure they don't have permanent burns from scalding drinks being dropped on their heads.

Good parents care more about their child's safety than respecting their 'spirit.'

OP: How much of a nice person can your SIL be if she's not above emotionally blackmailing her elderly mother into guilting a fake apology out of you to justify her tantrum to herself? How nice can she be constantly allowing her children to risk real harm? You're a lot more forgiving than I am!

I guess I just personally feel no matter how many little nice qualities a person has, some things are so huge they outweigh them all.

Sorry catkind - I wasn't at all clear.
It was your playdough example and I'd have been annoyed by the other woman because as you tell it, your son wasn't having any impact on anyone else. In which case it's fine to have differing parenting styles and leave it at that. She was a bit odd to step in.

The point I was badly making was that as soon as a child's behaviour affects someone else, then you can't sit back and say differing parenting styles are the issue and other people should not intervene. SIL was not dealing with her kids behaviour. Maybe she does let them run around. At home, fine. Out, where there are other diners and waitresses, not fine. As SIL was not taking any action, I have no issue with the OP deciding enough was enough. IF you don't want other people to touch your kids then either don't take your kids out, or make sure their behaviour isn't annoying everyone in the vicinity. Don't take them out, let them run riot and then be indignant when someone does intervene.

I thought your example was slightly different because of the impact your son's behaviour had on others - ie, none. So in your shoes I'd have been annoyed too.

OP's DH was the "git" who sat furthest away from SIL's children so he could avoid being exposed to them/having to discipline them. He isn't being asked to apologise for having retrieved the child without SIL's permission.

The little kids are his blood kin. His sister who doesn't discipline. His mother who is going to be upset about lack of family unity. I just don't understand why this apology & conflict seems to be solely OP's problem to fix -- if he does support her, that is.

I don't know what point I'm making, but something about the SIL being vilified, the OP being heavily lauded and the DH & MIL deemed blameless, doesn't sit right with me.

ywnbu - I have 'lively' kids and have to spend a good proportion of my time when we are out keeping them engaged and stopping them running off. I am grateful if a friend or relative helps I am secure enough in my parenting skills that another's input does not threaten me. Little children get bored in restaurants if i had been in op sil situation i would have secured a trusted babysitter and gone out without them but my 4 and 6 yo go to bed at 7pm.

In op's position 'grabbing' is what you do to catch hold of a fast moving small person it doesn't sound excessive as the child needed to be stopped the sil is insecure and defensive in her reaction.

speaking to her maybe helpful to clear the air between you, but only if she is able to listen. spending christmas apart sounds preferable for both of you, regardless. Good luck.

All of you saying it was out of order to restrict the childs freedom/ interfere are not very community minded imo, your childs behaviour affects others when you are in public and being mindful of others is an important lesson even for young children.

sorry I should clarify, I meant both op and sil should be able to listen to each others point of view if they want to clear the air. It may be best to wait til after Christmas.

I am only refering to useful assistance from others interference that is unwarranted like catkinds playdough example is not welcome.

My DH does also support me and try and also has tried to discpline them when they are at our house in the past. previously the DCs have started crying when he has asked them not to do things, which SIL didn't seem to be bothered about.

MIL is enabling the sister's parenting style, but I think she is very much not wanting to upset anyone, and she does rely heavily on the sister for transport etc. Also I think MIL knows that SIL can take offence very easily, and tends to pander to this. However, that is her daughter so I can understand in a way.

More importantly, I have an update:

A text message has just arrived to me from SIL always the cowards way out, texting saying:

"Mum has told me you are busy at work and stressed, so I am prepared to forgive and forget about you upsetting DC on Thursday. I know they were running around, but I prefer my children to have personalities, not be little robots like yours. See you on Christmas Day, come about 11am. SIL x"

grrrrrrrr I am absolutely livid, in one text message she manages to sound condescending, as if she is doing me a favour, and insult my children/parenting at the same time, and assume I will similarly forget and go there on Christmas Day!

And wtf is MIL doing deciding that she can aplogise for me!

I have shown DH and his response was "silly cow, just ignore it".

I will compose a response, but I need to calm down a bit first. And I definitely don't want to go there on Christmas Day, even though she has been magnanimous and "forgiven" me. Pah, I'm spitting!!!!

I would phone up MIL and explain that as SIL ruined the birthday dinner and now insulted your dc and your parenting that you think it's best that she joins you on boxing day instead.

Oh for heavens sake! I pity you, what an enormous pita she is - do you still reckon she's nice now?

She sounds manipulative, pouty and spoilt!

Love the suggestion that children who run around at inappropriate times have personalities and those that behave don't - deluded muppet!

I have no suggestions for your reply, they would all be based on logic which doesn't seem to be something she would understand!

What an unpleasanr text.

I'd be seriously tempted to respond with something along the lines of: "There must be a misunderstanding. I am not particularly stressed at work. As it happens, I prefer my children to be both safe, and not annoying to everyone they come into contact with - let's agree to differ on that shall we? We'll stick to having Christmas here now but maybe meet up sometime in the New Year. Shiney xxx."

Of course the one person this all upsets is your MIL but it's not on to apologise for you, although I can see why she would.

Jaysus! That is the worst xmas invite ever but do rise above she is very insecure and her mum is pandering. Enjoy a merry xmas at home.

I'm not suggesting you should send anything like my response though - just I'd be fighting to rein myself in! It's not a useful suggestion by any means, but just wow at the idea that knowing what behaviour is appropriate equates to a child with no personality!

I really think you need to get dh fully 100% on side and he needs to be the one to speak to his sister and I mean SPEAK.

aaarrrrgggghhhhh I am sooooo annoyed! No I don't still think she is nice, I think having children has bought out the worst in her.

Perhaps I will tell her that we will be staying home on Chrsitmas Day to watch the "Robots" movie.

Oh what a bitch! No way would I be wasting Christmas with her!

OP YANBU. But you've done well out of this, no more family occasions ruined in this way. Christmas in peace.

result :-D

You could respond with "I don't know why MIL has lied to you, we've decided to stay home this Christmas anyway & see MIL boxing day if she's free"

it would be better coming from your dh though.

I have to say my considered response to that text would be GO FUCK YOURSELF UP THE ARSE WITH A SPRIG OF HOLLY, YOU COW.

Now I remember why we spend Christmas at home with no guests!

Ignore the text, pretend you haven't received it and just don't turn up - that might be on her kind of level?

babybythesea - My fingers are itching with any number of cutting responses, but I am trying not to until I have calmed down. I have learnt in the past knee jerk responses are not always the best. Must keep robotic like self control!

I feel like saying "Works good at the moment actually, I was more stressed out by your DC's behaviour. Thanks for the invite, but as you say - our children are very different and ours would love a quiet Christmas at home with us, being able to make their Lego and play board games without wrecking them. DH will be around on Christmas Eve to drop your gifts off. Shiney x

I think your dh should reply. Both because she is his sister and because otherwise she is going to think you are being irrational, wedge driving etc etc. your dh responding will highlight the fact that both of you feel the same.

This is going to cause an almighty row but I can't see how you can spend Christmas with her. It will end up being a tense atmosphere and your little robots will have the day spoilt for them. They deserve a lovely day without all the nonsense.

In the long run, at least you can use this as The reason not to invite her when you take mil out.

I think a lot of you are missing the point; i wouldn't tolerate my kids running round as described, you wouldn't either; i welcome intervention from famy and strangers alike, so do you... BUT SiL doesn't, it doesn't matter whether 99.9999% of the population disagree with her, they are her kids. If she wants them to run feral and no one to intervene then so be it. Strangers undoutable will, but she doesn't have to accept this ad one poster had said she will. I expect she will have endless confrontations defending her dcs right to play havoc. And probably be ejected from many eateries

She has made her position perfectly clear, and she was there so OP has to control her compulsion to discipline her SiLs kids, if they are going to spend time together

You do not need to adopt embarrassment for other people

I would air all this with SiL. It's possible to come together if you are honest with each other and plan things carefully

I have only read the OP.

Tbh, I do think YWB a bit U. It's not your place to discipline her children - and the fact you did it in front of her undermined her - I would have been annoyed if someone did that to my children in front of me.

The children are quite young also.

I would say "I do not apologise for making sure DC was safe and we will not be joining you at xmas" and leave it at that.

And make sure you have words with MIL for apologising for you and how you dont like you or you children insulted.