To have discplined my SILs children as she was doing nothing...??

[Shinyballsandtinsel]

Two days ago, DH, me, our three DCs (9, 11, 13), granny, SIL and her two DCs went out for a meal in the evening (early about 7.00pm) for one of granny's landmark birthdays. We went to a chain pub, which later on turns into a club with bouncers on the door, no children after 9pm etc. It is in a town well known for stag/hen nights, however this time of year it is mostly Christmas parties.

It was very very busy, behind our table there were two long tables of about twenty people each, which looked like work do's. The bar was also very busy - there were steps leading down to the restaurant bit from the bar.

Our food arrived quite quickly. When we had finished our meal, we were waiting for the staff to bring plates for the birthday cake. My SILs older DC started running around and around the table very fast (aged 5yrs). SIL sat there doing nothing. Then the her younger DC started doing it also (aged 3yrs), whilst they were running the 3 year old ran into the legs of a fully laden waitress who nearly dropped all her plates. SIL still just sat there. They were running within close proximity of the people sitting on the end of the work do tables.

SIL was completely oblivious to it all, so I grabbed the 3yr old on his next run around, and plonked him down on a chair beside me, and said in quite a firm voice "sit down now, those people are having their dinner and Granny is about to have her cake". He immediately burst into tears, SIL glared at me, grabbed him on her lap. The 5 year old continued to run around the table, and then ran up the steps on her own into the bar area, my DH went to get her back, when she arrived back he put her onto her chair, she immediatley slid off under the table and started the running around thing again.

They have behaved like this before, I often make excuses for not going out when they are going to be there, as the children's behaviour, or rather the mother's complete oblivion to their behaviour actually winds me up. In the past she also literally just sits there whilst her children run around other people's tables, talk to strangers eating, ask if they can try some of their food (I kid you not!) and generally act as if they are in a playground. SIL has said in the past she thinks it cheers people up to see her kids smiley faces, and they are so freespirited and cute nobody could get annoyed with them..... Hence why I usually make my excuses, but as it was granny's landmark birthday couldn't get out of it.

Anyway, the saga continues - we all take it in turns to do Christmas dinner, this year is SILs turn to do it at her house. Today DH has received a telephone call to say that we are no longer invited for christmas day, as SIL is upset that I took it upon myself discipline her child, and it will ruin their Christmas if I do so again.

I am of the opinion that I am quite pleased not to have to go around there, and am happy to break away from the big family Christmas and start having Christmases at home with just our family, but Granny has now rung up very upset, and asked DH if I can apologise and make an excuse, i.e. say I was stressed at work or something.

I am not happy to do this, as I am not sorry. AIBU to not aplogise even though it will probably upset MIL?

Why not just leave them to it and interact with your own dc?

Sil is much more likely to realise its unacceptable if she has to deal with consequence I.e. accident or complaint from stranger

Is this the same Granny who is very upset and wants you to apologise, because she doesn't think SIL's children running riot in a restaurant is worth a rift?

takataka, I know I could not sit there and let children endanger themselves in this way. I would rather fall out with a parent than see their child be hurt.

Yes, talk to my own kids, whilst we have a 5 and 3 year d running laps around a table, running into waitresses and pissing off a whole two work outings!! Let our children be embarrassed a having to leave a restaurant before their meal is finished!?

Really, are we all on the same planet or are there some people on here who seriously think this is acceptable?

MIL probably just wants the OP to apologise so the OP and family get invited back to xmas at SIL's house, i understand that but even after an apology, there still might be awkwardness, best the OP stays away.

Shiny, i couldnt have ignored it, and being asked to leave the restaurant would have ruined granny's night more than making a child sit down and annoying the mother.

Ywnbu at all!

I would have done the same except i wouldnt have to as my sister would never let her son behave like this!

We went out for a meal today with the 5madthings, 13, 10, 7, 4 and 2yrs old. We took small toys for the little two and the elder three know how to behave when eating out, there is no way in a million years that dp and i would let our children behave like this!

Shiny, YWDNBU. You've made it clear that you tried everything - positive reinforcement, speaking to SIL, etc etc, before having to (calmly but firmly) rein the child in yourself, that even after the child ran into a waitress, SIL didn't do anything and that your MIL thought that you did the right thing. Win/win, if you ask me.

And the story you told about your SIL allowing her DC to destroy your DCs hard work and just smiling about it was dreadful. As SIL crashes every event with her badly behaved brood, you have made it clear that it is getting to the point where your DC don't get any time themselves with their DGM and it is disadvantaging them. This temporary rift will actually benefit your DC as they will get time with their DGM.

wabbitty loved your story.

Shiny, you can take some comfort in the fact that at least your DC are older than SIL's DC. We have a situation like this in our family and the other DC are older. My DC are sitting there nicely, talking, eating with cutlery, and the other older DC are running about and stuffing food into their faces with their fingers and trying to get mine to follow their lead. It is a real PITA.

Finally, it is amazing that it took several pages before someone raised the real possibility that the WAITSTAFF might also get hurt.

Honestly I think anyone who wouldn't intervene when a child is in danger (ignoring the shocking behaviour aspect) doesn't deserve to be a parent.

You'd let a child or a waitress get seriously injured over politically correct bullshit like you can't touch a child that isn't your own, even if it's instinctual, protective?

Wow. Just..Wow.

I come from an enormous family. In fact we just had our 'big' family Christmas recently. Children were disciplined by DH, me, IL's, cousins etc ... Just whoever happened notice a game was getting too rough or the ball was being thrown too hard etc. Cousin shouted across yard at DSS that he's been told repeatedly not to climb so high in the treehouse so he had to come down.

DSS cried. Five minutes later he was playing something else. My cousin is disgusting and DSS is traumatised.

I agree with the poster who said SIL sounds way too immature to have children. Poor kids.

Your SIL needs to be told that she is behaving inappropriately. Parents that bad cannot be allowed to get away with how bad they are.

I had god parents (my parents best friends) who had children a similar age to me and my brother. Godmother used to always tell me off. I remember once going for tea at their house, my mum picking me up and finding me alone with a cold plate of food in the living room, since god mother didn't allow her DC's to play until after they had finished. I have serious, serious issues with food, and eveen at 5, was vegetarian by my own choice and god mother had given me spag bol which was repulsive to me. My mum was fuming!

I think what i'm trying to say is, people have different expectation of their children. My mum diidn't make me eat all my dinner, but we weren't allowed to play outside like her DC's for example. I'm sure there's things you do, that your SIL hates!

I don't think anyone has the right to dicipline someones children personally. If there behaviour was as embarassing as you say, then why didn't you say to SIl, granny's cakes, coming,they should sit down, instead of making a three year old cry! I think you should apologize for the way it was said, but not that you condoned childrens behaviour...

She removed the child from danger MargerySimpson. He'd already almost knocked over a waitress carrying a full tray of plates. So when he made his next lap around the table, she grabbed him mid run and sat him down so he didn't end up in hospital because the waitress dropped a tray of plates on his head. He cried because three year old's cry when they don't get what they want. Especially three year old's who are never told no.

I don't get the whole 'gasp! He cried!' some posters are making. It doesn't come across like it was a frightened cry, it comes across like a 'I didn't get what I want!' Cry.

The SIL sounds like a manipulative, lazy bitch who is setting her children up to fail by not even giving the most basic of rules.

Even on here, read the descriptions people have labelled these kids with? Why? because no one likes a spoiled, entitled, rude child. Just as no one likes a spoiled, entitled, rude adult.

By letting them do whatever they want, she's turning them into unwanted pariahs. Even their own cousins aren't fond of them!

Her and her husband owe them better than that IMO.

Personally I've always secretly believed parents who claim their child is 'spirited' shudder And how much paying customers love seeing their snot covered, shrieking smiling, sweet children attempt to interact with them and steal their food don't actually believe what they spout; they're just too lazy and prefer not to have t be be a parent in a crowded place because 'no one will let anything happen to them.' I think it's just laziness disguised as modern thinking.

Brilliant! You don't have to spend Christmas with them!

Oh. And freespirited always = badly behaved little --shits- imho!

So no, YANBU!

Having read all your later posts,shiny, I would say that you were right. MIL wasn't happy with the behaviour, MIL wasn't happy that SIL wasn't doing anything, your intervention meant that you could at least all stay for the the cake on her landmark birthday. All was fine until SIL decided to make an issue of it, knowing that it would spoil Christmas for MIL. You are then supposed to lie and have everyone pretend that her DCs are perfectly reasonable when out- despite the fact that every other person in the restaurant thought they were an utter pain!
Since you have a lifetime of spending time with them I would stand your ground and have Christmas at home- especially as you would prefer it. As I said earlier, I would refuse to get in an argument - just appear mystified about the reaction. Be perfectly friendly.

No I don't think it acceptable at all.

But you knew what the kids were like, and your SiL before the night out. You all went out at 7pm to a very busy restaurant. The outcome was predictable. And an AIBU thread, when clearly it is your Sil and not you being unreasonable??

If my DS was doing something dangerous that I somehow hadn't noticed, I would expect anyone in the near vicinity to put their hands on him to keep him safe. On a family occasion if he needed speaking to and I wasn't there I would welcome anybody, even SIL (even though she isn't related ) telling him to behave, because I trust them to do it nicely and appropriately.

The idea that an aunt by marriage was 'disgusting' for grabbing her nephew and giving him some words is utterly bizarre to me. In my family, children are kind of everyone's responsibility. If DS is rude or cheeky to his uncles (not that he is often!) I'd expect them to tell him so, not wait for me to come and do it.

Your post reminded me ErikNorseman, I meant to say that was an appalling post calling the aunt by marriage a stranger and not even family.

That is disgusting.

Just wanted to share a little anecdote with you. Many years ago I worked for a well known tex mex restaurant chain.

As I was carrying a fajita out from the kitchen a small child cannoned into me, their face at skillet height. I had two options, them or me, so flipped the skillet back at myself, (it was on a big wooden plate)

Child disappeared at a run into the bust restaurant and I went off to A&E to have my burns treated (still scarred to this day.) Do you know what happened a couple of days later? The parents complained to head office that I had splattered their pfb with sour cream and tried to mwke me pay for having his bloody coat dry cleaned!

Restaurants are not playgrounds, and OP YADNBU

Even after your sad story Tinsel there will be those who think that OP should have acted differently!

YWDNBU and I am a little startled at the suggestions that you should apologise.

There are very, very few people out there who would not be hugely irritated by small children harassing them when out for a meal. If I had been in that restaurant I would have been glaring at the OP's table, wondering why none of the adults present were bothering to do anything, and the OP would have been included in that.

When you choose to socialise as part of a group, whether it is a family group or a group of friends or colleagues, you may find that your personal way of doing things clashes with the rest of the group's way of doing things. Unless you are going to make yourself into the person that no-one wants to spend time with because you always put your needs above everyone else's enjoyment and needs, you need to compromise. If you want things exactly your way, and to make no concessions to being in a social setting, that is fine - just stay at home where you can have everything your own way.

The OP's SIL doesn't like anyone criticising her children, and she doesn't want to modify their behaviour - then she should stay at home and not inflict her unpopular parenting style on her whole family and a whole restaurant. The OP was part of the group and the children's behaviour would reflect on her. The SIL should have had the sense to realise this and to swallow her dislike of having her children's behaviour criticised, or she should have just gone home.

The OP didn't do anything out-there, or weird. She just retrieved a rampaging child and put him back in his seat. He cried. Children cry. I can imagine my 3 year-old sitting there wailing, with tears streaming down his face in this scenario - he would get absolutely no sympathy from me because he wouldn't be crying because he was upset or frightened - he would be crying because he had been stopped doing what he wanted to do. Disclaimer: he wouldn't be in that situation because I would have done something about it myself long before it got to that point.

To those saying the OP should have spoken to the SIL first - I would do the exact opposite. By speaking to someone who you know to be unreasonable on this subject you are opening up the possibility of having a row. I would imagine the OP was hoping the SIL would simply seethe quietly if she just acted herself, rather than risking a verbal row.

I meant to say that I remember one particularly pleasant meal in a lovely, quiet local pub when DS1 was tiny and we had a rare night of babysitting.

We spent the evening trying to drag someone else's children (about 6 and 9 or so) out from under our table where they were determined to play, while their parents had a lovely quiet time with their friends on the other side of the room, occasionally smiling graciously in our direction.

When I eventually had enough and stuck my arm out to physically stop the older child crawling under our table yet again and told him firmly to go back to his parents and stop interrupting our meal, he went back to them, moaning and complaining about me and we were subjected to glaring and muttering for the rest of the evening.

I was fairly close to going over and asking if they had a problem with my wish to not have their fairly large children camped out on my feet and knocking my table hard enough to spill our drinks.

Margeysimpson, do you have children of your own who are at school? If you do, do you think the teachers have no right to discipline your children when you are at school too?

We live in a society, we need to remember our own rights and our responsibilities for others too. Those responsibilities include ensuring our children behave in such a way as to not upset and put in danger others, they also include being able to tell off ANY CHILDREN, related or strangers, when they are doing wrong. The children in the original post were doing wrong, not only potentially upsetting other people in a public place, but also were a health a safety risk to those working in the restaurant. If I had seen them and been at an adjoining table, I would have stopped them and found their parents and told them to get them to sit down or I'd get the management to get them removed from the restaurant.

PS making 3 year olds cry!!!! How silly, how old are you?

Every day I make 3 year olds cry, one in particular who is rude and not controlled by his parents, comes in to school and under our rules that child has to respect others in class and respect the adults who look after them, that child hits and nips the other children frequently, cannot stand being told what to do or being told off for hurting the others, the response is invariably to cry, I frankly don't care if that child does, that child knows hurting others in unacceptable, that child is told several times a day, that child cries 10 seconds, fold arms, grimaces, then gets on with it, the child's choice to cry, does exactly same with parents who then start comforting and forget the harm, doesn't work at school.

The Posters saying OP was being unreasonable in dealing with her Niece and Nephew while her SiL was blatently ignoring their bad behaviour are being ridiculous quite frankly.

This lack of discipline and lazy parenting displayed by the children and Parent will bite these kids and her very hard on the arse in the future.

Invariably these threads have the majority saying DC should be kept safe, be respectful of others and a minority saying no discipline, no restrictive behaviour management and kids must be allowed to be kids.

Bit like society really...a small minority insisting on their right to annoy the rest.