to be angry at this mother.

[Sallyingforth]

Right. I know I'm going to be flamed for this as it's been discussed before but I'll ask anyway.
On the tv last night there was a young mother who was complaining that the council had kept her in b&b because they had no suitable flats. You could see that she was also pregnant. There was no mention of a father for either child.
The last time I checked, pregnancy was optional. It seems totally irresponsible to have another baby when you do not have adequate accommodation for the first.
Councils have a responsibility to house homeless people, and that is quite right. But they cannot keep building infinite numbers of flats just to keep up with people who expect free accommodation for life. The rest of us have to pay for it!

Scott, may I ask you a couple of thing about my personal situation? I would like to see the general opinion of a housing officer as things are complicated here. I would happily take it to PM.

Can I also add that the only pregnant females that we will put forward for council accommodation sharpish (providing they're not intentionally homeless and meet all other criteria) are girls who are care leavers aged 18-21.

Many will probably disagree with this, but of all the extremely vulnerable people I come across, care leavers are right at the top. Some of the pregnant care leavers I've seen, despite their young age, have experienced more horrors in life than you can imagine.

Ultimately, you have to think about whether it is kinder for all involved to place them into secure accommodation and at least give them an opportunity to raise their child despite the difficulties and lack of stability they have experienced in their own childhoods, or whether you react as many posters on here would and essentially tell them to clear off.

It is frustrating when people act 'fecklessly', but there are children involved in these situations who have not asked or done anything to deserve being treated with such contempt.

What do you do if you don't 'give them' a house? Let them rot on the street? Take their child into care?

The only way to overcome these difficulties is to ensure that young girls, as much as possible, are educated to understand that they do have other options and that having a child is not an automatic way to make life more fulfilling and secure.

Rabbits, feel free to PM me- I'll try and advise you as much as I can.

Sock i do think it can depend where you live.

I have a 20 year old niece, she has never really worked.

Got pregnant, boyfriend got bored and left. She told the council my sister was kicking her out (she wasn't) and she has been able to rent a new build 2 bedroom flat at the cost of £1000 a month and the council are paying for it.

That's not a myth.

HoHoHokey- did your sister tell the housing officer handling your niece's case that she was kicking her out? Did they speak to her at all? If not, then I'd be extremely surprised- it's the first thing you do in that sort of case.

If your sister lied and said that she was kicking her out, then the fault lies with your sister for being complicit. Sometimes we know people are lying, but we cannot prove otherwise- we have strict legal tests to apply and if that's what they say and we can't prove otherwise, the duty is owed.

Also, which authority does your niece live in? With one child, she would be considered to have a two bedroom need, and even in my very expensive South East authority, the housing benefit rate for a 2 bed property is only £650 pcm. They can't legally place her into a property above the HB rate because it wouldn't be seen as a suitable offer and she would therefore still be classed as homeless. £1000 pcm in HB for a 2 bed is a lot more than I've ever heard of, but I'm happy to be told I'm wrong.

I don't know scott, i didn't want to get involved as i don't agree with any of it, it would be fair to assume my sister probably did lie.

It might have been a pita having my niece there with her son but she would have never kicked them out.

We're in greater London, another sister of mine went to look at the flat with my niece and so was there when all costs ect were discussed and so i know it is that much. I know she had to pay the deposit and first months rent herself.

It has also caused a lot of bad feeling in the family as i have other young nieces who have no children and work but have to stay at home with their parents as they cannot afford to rent.

YANBU, if old enough to have sex without contraception (and true accidents are rare as modern forms of contraception are very reliable and there is morning after cover as well) then they are old enough to work and house themselves.

Bleating on tv that the world is unfair as life is not beinh handed to her on a plate just shows the sense of entitlement thousands have.

Schools teach sex ed but its down to parents to install a work ethic, morals and financial planning.

because mumsnetters love to encourage women without any means of support other than state benefit (funded not by a mysterious 'state' but by the taxpayer ie working people) to continue breeding fecklessly....(does that mean they do it without fecking?)

we don't need more council housing/ housing association properties. we need the 'blockers' who are working and don't need social housing, or whose families have grown up and left, to move on - to home ownership, to private rental, to smaller accommodation. we need people to take responsibility for themselves where possible, so that those people who really need support can get it.

we need people to embark on their sex lives later, exercise more self control, use more contraception and have fewer unplanned pregnancies, so that there are fewer abortions and fewer children suffering neglect and inadequate parenting.

what we really need is good manners. polite men who wouldn't dream of leaving a pregnant girlfriend without support. polite older couples, who having enjoyed subsidised housing for twenty years, are ready to move out of their four bedroomed council house and let a young family move in. polite young women who think so much of themselves and any possible future offspring that they wouldn't consider risking an unplanned pregnancy.

i'm reaching the conclusion that good manners could solve most of the world's problems.

We need people like lovebunny to stop talking bollocks.

i disagree with you sock, but you knew that...

You can disagree with me all you want but it won't change housing law or housing benefit regulations.

As things stand at the moment the local authority has to follow the law with regard to everything including allocations and the applicants also have to follow the law with regard to honesty ect.

But for what it's worth I actually agree with you regarding pensioners being exempt from the new under occupying rules.

the essence of what you say lovebunny is spot on. personal responsibility and being more choosey who you sleep.