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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to be angry at this mother.

165 replies

Sallyingforth · 07/12/2012 10:25

Right. I know I'm going to be flamed for this as it's been discussed before but I'll ask anyway.
On the tv last night there was a young mother who was complaining that the council had kept her in b&b because they had no suitable flats. You could see that she was also pregnant. There was no mention of a father for either child.
The last time I checked, pregnancy was optional. It seems totally irresponsible to have another baby when you do not have adequate accommodation for the first.
Councils have a responsibility to house homeless people, and that is quite right. But they cannot keep building infinite numbers of flats just to keep up with people who expect free accommodation for life. The rest of us have to pay for it!

OP posts:
AbigailAdams · 07/12/2012 11:37

"The boy can walk easily away from it all. The girl can't. " And why is that Everlong? Why is it so easy for boys to walk away from responsibility and blame?

WileywithSageStuffing · 07/12/2012 11:37

No but I'm pretty sure most of them didn't plan it in order to get a house

Disagree.

Sorry to go against the grain. I do disagree with this from what i have experienced through work.

It would be nice if it were true though.

IneedAsockamnesty · 07/12/2012 11:39

If someone is really in a situation where they're prepared to have a baby with no job and no partner just to try to get a council flat, I feel fairly shit for them and a lot more pissed off at the political situation that's got them into that mindset in the first place.

^^^ this plus I would feel a need to explain to her that it wouldn't happen and hasn't for years because housing does not work like that.

Gatorade · 07/12/2012 11:40

I agree OP, it is feckless of both parents to conceive a child in this situation (if the child is as a result of rape then of course this doesn't stand).

I don't see contraception failure as a legitimate excuse either, it is perfectly possible to avoid having full on sexual intercourse if you are not in a position to support another child (or at least double up on contraception to massively reduce the risk).

VinegarTits · 07/12/2012 11:40

Yes yabu and very fuckwitted about this, for a start council house does not = on benefits, she could have a job and have the first child in nursey/planned maternity for the second, and if the father has fucked off she would probably be struggling and needs help with social housing, so many presumptions from a snippet of her life that you witnessed, its high time the men that have children and then fuck off leaving the state to pay for them are held accountable, but a blind eye is turned as per usual and the mother is villianised yet again

EverlongLovesHerChristmasRobin · 07/12/2012 11:41

Why is it easy AA?

Because these are children fathering a baby. How can an unemployed boy of 16,17, whatever, provide for a baby and the girl he got pregnant. He can barely look after himself.

Nobody can force him to take his responsibility.

And there lies the problem.

SantasLittleHo · 07/12/2012 11:42

YABU. OP whenever I see people in that situation (on tv or in my real life) I thank my lucky stars that I'm fortunate to have the very basics of life available to me without question. Having to rely on someone seated at a desk who sees my situation as nothing more than a reference number must be soul destroying. Have some empathy and be grateful you're in the fortunate position to pass judgement.

LRDtheFeministDude · 07/12/2012 11:42

Yes, good point sock.

When I was a teenager I had no clue what I was entitled to under law, or what my responsibilities would be as an adult citizen. If you'd told me I'd get free university education, I'd have believed it. If you'd told me I'd have to pay half my salary as tax I'd have believed it. I had no idea. Because I was a teenager. That's not being entitled: that's just not knowing how the world works.

Why some teenagers should be expected to have an adult perspective just because they've become pregnant is beyond me.

VinegarTits · 07/12/2012 11:45

and even if she wasnt raped/abused, lots of people have unplanned pg's, because guess what? contraception is not 100% fullproof, so what do you suggest? all the poor people should abort them?

alemci · 07/12/2012 11:47

I don't think it is a good idea to keep on building. There is so much flooding in the Uk and do we really want to live in a concrete jungle. I live in Greater London and everywhere is so crowded. Also the new builds don't necessarily go to the right people IMO.

I've worked in a secondary school and have known girls who didn't do well at school now in their late teens with lovely flats and babies in good areas. The kids who tried hard and have gone to university are struggling to pay off debt and are probably back with mum and dad.

The former have no ambition and are often disruptive in class. I know it is not always their fault but it shouldn't be rewarded with everything paid for by the taxpayer. They seem to always manage to get pregnant though.

I'm not suggesting going back to the Magdalene nurseries etc but maybe some sort of hostels. Make it seem like a less attractive option.

EverlongLovesHerChristmasRobin · 07/12/2012 11:48

Yes some people get caught by accident. Not all the bloody thousands of teenage pregnant girls though.

BumpingFuglies · 07/12/2012 11:48

Gatorade

I don't see contraception failure as a legitimate excuse either, it is perfectly possible to avoid having full on sexual intercourse if you are not in a position to support another child (or at least double up on contraception to massively reduce the risk).

Really? Which planet are you on? Hmm

LRDtheFeministDude · 07/12/2012 11:48

I think it's a pretty unattractive option right now, TBH.

BumpingFuglies · 07/12/2012 11:49

What VinegarTits said

AbigailAdams · 07/12/2012 11:51

"Nobody can force him to take his responsibility.

And there lies the problem."

Precisely. Nobody can force him to take responsilbity at the moment. But they could be forced to take some responsibility, by the state.

And what is an unemployed teenage boy doing by having sex with women if he isn't going to look after a possible baby? These are the attitudes that need addressing. Not the woman's attitude. She is taking responsiblity.

And what Sock said.

silvercup · 07/12/2012 11:51

YABU. You know nothing of her circumstances.

VinegarTits · 07/12/2012 11:52

'I don't see contraception failure as a legitimate excuse either, it is perfectly possible to avoid having full on sexual intercourse if you are not in a position to support another child (or at least double up on contraception to massively reduce the risk).'

oh yes the poor people should have sex just in case Hmm

i had an unplanned pg when i was 34, im well educated and took full precautions but nothing is certain in this life, fortunatley i was finacially stable enough to support another child, but if i wasnt should i have got rid? because its that easy?

IneedAsockamnesty · 07/12/2012 11:52

Sorry to go against the grain. I do disagree with this from what i have experienced through work.

It would be nice if it were true though.

Unless you left housing more than about 10 years ago your experience is not in line with most other housing depts, perhaps its a case of your vile way of looking at it that makes the tiny % appear so much bigger

BumpingFuglies · 07/12/2012 11:53

I'm not suggesting going back to the Magdalene nurseries etc but maybe some sort of hostels. Make it seem like a less attractive option.

Yep. Great way to bring the kids up, that'll work Shock

Gatorade · 07/12/2012 11:53

What do you mean bumping, as a teenager/young adult I didn't have full on intercousre (too much information) as I new pregnancy was a risk and one that I couldn't afford at the time. You can still have plenty of fun Wink

I personally would not chose to put myself into a position of conceiving a child who I couldn't support and I'm not sure why others do.

IneedAsockamnesty · 07/12/2012 11:54

I'm not suggesting going back to the Magdalene nurseries etc but maybe some sort of hostels. Make it seem like a less attractive option.

Housing depts all over the uk have been doing this already for ages

VinegarTits · 07/12/2012 11:55

the poor people shouldnt have sex

like i said, nothing is certain in this life, people circumstances can change in an instant, and then your up shit creek without a paddle, unless your perfect like the op that is Hmm

EverlongLovesHerChristmasRobin · 07/12/2012 11:56

AA why do you think an unemployed teenage boy is having sex? Confused

Erm because he's a teenage boy I would have thought.

They both have responsibilities to a baby. Not just him. If she isn't working and can't live at home it becomes the states obligation to support them.

Gatorade · 07/12/2012 11:56

But that said I don't begrudge and tax that I pay going to help support children born in such situations as it wasn't their choice to be born and nobody in a civilised country like the uk should be brought up in poverty without a home (a b&b isn't a home)

Original poster
Sallyingforth · 07/12/2012 11:57

We need more flats. We'd need more flats even if every pregnant teenage girl and her boyfriend was housed in a B&B/on the streets.

Wonderful. Just wonderful.

Please explain where these flats are to built, in a London borough where every inch is already occupied. Build on school playgrounds? On the few remaining parks?

And please explain who is going to pay for these flats and maintain them. Are you volunteering?

OP posts: