to be angry at this mother.

[Sallyingforth]

Right. I know I'm going to be flamed for this as it's been discussed before but I'll ask anyway.
On the tv last night there was a young mother who was complaining that the council had kept her in b&b because they had no suitable flats. You could see that she was also pregnant. There was no mention of a father for either child.
The last time I checked, pregnancy was optional. It seems totally irresponsible to have another baby when you do not have adequate accommodation for the first.
Councils have a responsibility to house homeless people, and that is quite right. But they cannot keep building infinite numbers of flats just to keep up with people who expect free accommodation for life. The rest of us have to pay for it!

Are you angry at the fathers for apparently not taking their responsibility for having children seriously?
That's 50% of it, yes.
My other 50% is directed at the mother's attitude of "Where is the nice council flat that I'm entitled to"

Well, but you didn't mention them! You mentioned 'young girls getting pregnant' and empowering 'young women'. You may mean that the partners are just as responsible, but you didn't mention them at all and discussed only the women's side.

Even if you feel strongly that partners are just as responsible, if nobody ever says it, how are these young women supposed to know? And how are their partners supposed to know?

Yes I did. I said
"There was no mention of a father for either child."

Sorry, replying to hoho (hence quoting her posts), should have made that clearer.

How do you know the mother thinks she's entitled to a 'nice council flat'? Do you mean she said that, or you mean to imply you know that's why she's having the baby?

The first is simply true: the council is meant to house people in her situation and she is right to feel bothered she's in a B&B which should only be temporary. The second is you making things up that you don't know.

We don't know the circumstances.

But would it be ok to be pissed off at someone that had got pregnant again, with no job, wasn't with the father just to get a flat?

And you don't think you'd be feeling pretty shit if you were a young pregnant mother and stuck in a B&B, having to live in one room with a toddler and not even having access to a kitchen? It's not "entitled" to want a "nice free council flat", it's a fucking NEED for adequate accommodation. It doesn't matter what lead to that situation - it's a horrible situation to be in.

Maybe it was a mistake? Maybe she thought she was in love and her partner left her for another woman? Maybe he was too embarrassed to be on tv as opted out of being filmed? Or maybe she really was a benefits scrounger. We don't know do we? Being angry about this is a bit of an overreaction. A little "tut" would have been sufficient.

You're assuming circumstances to suit your point of view, OP.

I guess i focused on the woman as the piece was all about her and how difficult life is for her.

If the post had been about men leaving partners and children i would have mentioned it.

I can see why people would, everlong, but I think it's a bit crap TBH.

If someone is really in a situation where they're prepared to have a baby with no job and no partner just to try to get a council flat, I feel fairly shit for them and a lot more pissed off at the political situation that's got them into that mindset in the first place.

"Yes I did. I said
"There was no mention of a father for either child." "

That wasn't expressing any anger towards the fathers. Your title expresses anger solely in the woman's direction, just like society in general does. It is the woman's fault because she is looking after the baby. The father magically absolves responsibility and any blame attached with said responsibility when he fucks off.

Yes Everlong and sadly having been a Housing Officer this was more frequent than many would like to admit (in our area anyway).

Perhaps having worked in this environment my view has been tainted. I always felt that it was terribly unjust for those people who genuinely needed the welfare state to support them in their time of need that they get "tarred with the same brush".

Ok, take your point HoHo, but I still think it's a huge issue, wherever you reckon the attitude that focussing on the women is ok comes from.

But Bertie nobody forces these girls to get pregnant. To bring yet another dependent child into the world that needs feeding, housing and clothing, educating etc etc.

Oh and maybe she was raped OP?

everlong, I think you missed a really crucial post of bertie's which makes your post come across as pretty appalling. I'm sure it wasn't deliberate but you've missed where she mentioned knowing someone who got into this situation because she was raped.

Nobody forces the fathers to impregnate these women either but I am not seeing much righteous anger in their direction.

Of course it would be terrible if the girl had been raped. Nobody would think otherwise.

But the thousands of teenage girls up and down the country who are pregnant or have a young baby will not have been raped.

You are right Everlong. And thousands of teenage boys will have had sex with them in order to get pregnant. Where is their responsibility?

didn't see this and I can't understand why the councils would be fined. Isn't that just a waste of money. Surelythe B & B is better than her being out on the street. Has she made deliberately made herself homeless and moved out from her parent/s' house?

also I agree with OP people need to take responsibility for family planning and not expecting to have everything off the state. I am sure lots of young people would like to have their own flat and have done the right thing and tried to work hard and make a career for themselves.

Yes she could have been raped which is horrible but is probably unlikely.

No but I'm pretty sure most of them didn't plan it in order to get a house.

And if they did I'd still rather they were able to do so than that we stop providing housing for people who are in need through making a mistake, or by something that happened through no fault of their own.

That's true, everlong. But AA is right.

I'm not sure how many teenage girls are really in a position to make an informed decision. I know that sounds patronizing and I do think there's a huge difference between someone who's an adult and someone who's not, or between different individuals. But I'm not sure I mostly blame the teenagers when they are pretty vulnerable just by being that age.

Thank you all for your comments. I can't repeat everything that was in the report, but the thrust of it was that the council should be building more and more flats to accommodate everyone who claimed one. And this mother was shown as an example.
This was a London council in a heavily built up area with very limited building space and limited financial resources. Just where are all the new flats to come from, and who is to pay for them?
We all know of young mothers/couples who are desperately working to be independent and provide for their own children, and yet at the same time they have to pay council tax to build flats for others. This just isn't fair.

Of course the boy has a responsibility. But at 16 years old or thereabouts the boy is not ready to provide for a baby. Just as the girl isn't.

The boy can walk easily away from it all. The girl can't.

We need more flats. We'd need more flats even if every pregnant teenage girl and her boyfriend was housed in a B&B/on the streets.

So building more flats is just plain sensible.