To not want my DC to participate in nativity?

[Spru]

I asked school to excuse DC from nativity (due to religious reasons - we do not depict jesus/mary/joseph.) They were absolutely fine with it. Happened to mention this to work colleagues - and they basically told me that I wasn't willing to integrate!

I was a bit shocked that they saw it like this despite the fact that I explained why. I didn't realise that this decision was perceived as a lack of willingness to integrate - in a country which I have been born and brought up in.

I had to bite my tongue for the sake of peace!

So...MN jury... AIBU to exclude DC from nativity for religious reasons (note: DC is not excluded from other christmas activities at school). Am I just not integrating well into the society that I was born and brought up in?

TIA

(please be gentle)

Amazed at so many posts that failed to actually read the OP and what she was saying about her reasons for not wanting her children to act out a holy story and portray holy characters, because her religious beliefs make that a taboo. This has nothing to do with not wanting to be part of Christmas celebrations. It has nothing to do with not wanting 'to catch a dose of the Christians'.

From a personal point of view, I do feel sorry for her son if he feels excluded because of not being in the play, but hope he's being made to feel fine about it.

OP, I'm not sure if you're being unreasonable or not (because I personally would not want my own religious beliefs to impose on my children to the extent that they felt sad for not joining in or belonging - which is why I'm happy, more or less, as an atheist, to have DS1 be a shepherd in the Crib Service on Christmas Eve!) but some people on this thread sure as hell are.

Yes I've read the thread.

OP you are intolerant.

You're intolerant of the national curriculum and how it's taught and you're also intolerant of how the school chooses to teach and encourage the children to learn and remember.

Of course it's your choice but I just think it's a shame when schools bend over backwards to be so inclusive and some parents bend over backwards to be divisive.

Caught in the middle somewhere are the children and they are the only ones that should matter here imo.

Yes, children like visual learning but the depiction of prophets is against the op's religion.

I'm sure her children will enjoy lots of visual learning which does not depict prophets.

I wish some of the posters here would remember those listening skills they learnt in reception. Half these posters haven't even heard what she said. Incredible.

Religious beliefs should never make learning a 'taboo'...and acting is all part of learning.

Yeah, I learnt loads from the Nativity. Not.

I'm not sure how a Nativity play is 'bending over backwards to be inclusive' tbh. It's not as if OP wants the school to cancel. Any school worth its salt won't make a group of children feel excluded for doing a different activity.

That's neither here nor there MrsT

I learnt bugger all in cookery but that doesn't mean all children shouldn't get the chance to learn.

And if acting is essential Nativity is hardly the school's only option.

My Jewish friend at school couldn't write God, she used to write G.. Does this mean that the teeny tiny religious adjustment she made affected her reading and writing? No, course not.

I didn't say the Nativity play was bending over backwards to be inclusive...I said schools are and quite rightly so.

O.P , from a fellow Muslim, YANBU and I do not like the "not intergrating" card, it's pulled far too often these days.

ITA with Pozzled, this is being blown out of all proportion.

Waaaay up the thread Solomon mentioned about integration never being raised as an issue when white JW's withdraw from certain activities in schools.

The OP doesn't want to make a big deal about this, a quiet word with the teacher and the child will be doing some alternative activities (probably a bit of arts and crafts)and that's it. It's the people who seem to find Muslims vaguely threatening that are making the biggest fuss/most outraged by this and I wonder why..?

P.S All the "How dare you OP" posts here, I'm reading them in the voice of Ian Paisley and it makes them more entertaining.

Look, the OP has asked if she's being unreasonable and I think she absolutely is.

She's not the child who has to be excluded from something their peers get to do, because of someone else's wishes...someone who doesn't go to school anymore.

My opinion is, if you're that strict about your religion it's much fairer and kinder to your kids to send them to a faith school where they don't have to be excluded.

Her child may or may not be affected by her meddling but she won't know until the child is older...and by then the resentment may/may not be too deep set to remove.

Her child and her rules though obviously.

I think you're being unreasonable if only because you're excluding your children from participating in fun activities with their peers. It's a performance, not a religious experience.

I'm leaving this thread now cos I've said all I have to say but I can't go without correcting this...

"Waaaay up the thread Solomon mentioned about integration never being raised as an issue when white JW's withdraw from certain activities in schools"

That couldn't be more wrong. There have been many many threads on the subject of JW's banning their kids from parties, sending Birthday and Xmas cards etc... absolutely loads in the nearly 2 years I've been posting.

Anyway good luck OP. If you don't think you're being unreasonable then that's your call.

I'm sure if she sent her children to a faith school, she would be accused, probably by the same people, of not integrating.

I'd like to point out that one of the reasons we have so many people in the UK who have come from, or whose families have some from Muslim countries is because of colonialism. You know, when we invaded and conquered whole continents, told everyone what to do, made everyone do what we wanted, imposed law, religion, culture, education, then buggered off. Ironic, or just sad.

And, I have traveled all over the world and lived in several different countries. The worst people in the world for not eating the food, not learning the language and not 'integrating' are White British people.

I can only quote my own experience, but my dm is vegetarian, and my siblings and I were not allowed meat until we were old enough to decide for ourselves. None of us were traumatised by not having pepperoni pizza and Haribo sweets at parties, and none of us resents her for it now.

Doing craft or whatever with classmates (remember OP's dc is not the only one not doing Nativity) is imo not likely to be terribly distressing.

All these crystal balls about a child growing up to resenting for the rest of their lives because of not doing one play due to his mother's morals. I wish they could send them back to my mother while I was seething about having to do all the bloody plays (I was the granddaughter of the local minister - I had to have a big singing part) for their want of being popular.

Her pushing for me to be included and like everyone else and part of the show were horrible (and mostly driven by her own desires to be "in" with everything) and tended to make the bullying and exclusion from my peers [and some teachers] a lot worse.

Now as an adult, who doesn't do Christmas at all, I've noticed it's adults who are far more unforgiving and harsh and excluding to those who don't follow the way than any of the kids, the kids tend to just follow the adults' examples.

School has not had an issue with my request. They have not had to 'bend over backwards' over this. It really was not difficult at all for them. In fact, I think that the school is doing a truly great job of being inclusive and respecting diversity.

My Dc is not feeling caught or trapped somewhere in the middle - that is a bit over-dramatic i think.

It is not fairer and kinder to send my Dc to a faith school because I think it is important for children to see that people ARE different and have different ways of doing things. My DC will most definitely benefit more from a multi-faith school and will gain more from there than being in a faith school just so that he wouldnt be excluded from a nativity play!

Had I stated that I wished to send my Dc to a faith school, I would have been accused of still afflicting my beliefs on DC and not integrating of course!

Why are people not getting the fact that we all instill our beliefs (not necessarily religious) into our children to some degree. This whole thing about deep-seated resentment later in life over a nativity play, especially knowing my DC's complete disinterest in it......I kind of find it really funny! (sorry, but I can't help it!)

Then why are you asking if you're being unreasonable if you've clearly made up your mind point blank that you aren't?

Bit of a waste of time don't you think?

Your DC certainly will benefit more from attending a multi-faith school, but only if you stop with the sanctions and restrictions.

But as you feel you're 100% right in what you're doing, I'm not even sure why you bothered posting?

GrrrArgh You have just reminded me of my school years - a friend who's father was also a minister. She used to have to put on a pantomime at Christmas. They were great! She used to absolutely hate them, as she also felt she was always performing and I loved it so much that i used to ask for a part! I did a part in Cinderella one year, although the part for Cinderella went to a boy and not me! :(

Ah...those were the days! :)

The ignorance and almost wilfull misunderstanding on this thread are staggering. The OP's rationale for opting out of the nativity has been explained umpteen times, by the OP and by others, and yet some people are still spectacularly missing the point. It would seem that the ability of some to comprehend what the OP is saying is sadly overshadowed by other agendas. :(

OP, I do not share your beliefs but I understand and respect your decision. This has nothing to do with integration (which is a ridiculous irrelevance anyway, given that you were born here!) and there is no hypocrisy at all in going along with the bits of Christmas tradition that don't conflict with your personal beliefs and/or values. Your dc will not miss out on anything major, and I'm sure they will understand your reasons. You have handled the ignorance and hostility on this thread incredibly graciously and with good humour. I am only sorry that there seems to be such antagonism among some people towards your faith. :(

I'm very late to this, so this has probably been covered. But I think you should have let him participate as long as he was a donkey or something and not actually a prophet.

Oh for fuck sake turn it in will you?

'Ignorance and antagonsim' because some people believe excluding young children from a play is wrong?

Born here?? What the fuck does that have to do with being Muslim or not? No-one's going on about where the OP was born??

Seriously, I think some people like to portray such an 'open mind' that their brains fall right out.

When you've finished making shit up...perhaps you might like to read the thread again Jinsei?

Sending a child to school and stopping them from acting in play with their peers for your own personal reasons is one thing...but starting a thread inviting opinions on it because you're not confident in your own choice is quite another.

That doesn't mean that anyone who disagrees with the OP is ignorant or antagonistic...actually I'd say posts like yours fall far more into that category.

Did I touch a nerve, worra?