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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To not want my DC to participate in nativity?

631 replies

Spru · 05/12/2012 15:47

I asked school to excuse DC from nativity (due to religious reasons - we do not depict jesus/mary/joseph.) They were absolutely fine with it. Happened to mention this to work colleagues - and they basically told me that I wasn't willing to integrate! Hmm

I was a bit shocked that they saw it like this despite the fact that I explained why. I didn't realise that this decision was perceived as a lack of willingness to integrate - in a country which I have been born and brought up in.

I had to bite my tongue for the sake of peace!

So...MN jury...Grin AIBU to exclude DC from nativity for religious reasons (note: DC is not excluded from other christmas activities at school). Am I just not integrating well into the society that I was born and brought up in?

TIA

Grin

(please be gentle)

OP posts:
MrTumblesCrackWhore · 06/12/2012 22:06

Umm, I don't just believe things like 'stealing is great' or 'go out and murder people' are morally incorrect, I know they are. Anyway, that's false argument because you're equating the OPs religious beliefs with those truisms. I'm not even going to enter into a debate about whether or not I'd let my dc take part in plays on those themes.

My point was about favouring my children's happiness over any personal beliefs I hold, which may prohibit them from doing things they ordinarily would want to.

What I will apologise about is my misspelling of 'lightening'.

FromEsme · 06/12/2012 22:16

You can't "know" something is morally incorrect, that would suggest there's some sort of absolute morality, which is patently impossible.

I'd say that religious beliefs for many over-ride fitting in at school.

RiaUnderTheMistletoe · 06/12/2012 22:16

'Truisms' are just the beliefs of the majority, there is no scientific right and wrong.

PessaryPam · 06/12/2012 22:21

At the risk or really not being right on with the current religion thing Wallison I have just drawn a stick man and put the name Mo against it. Am I blasphemous? Are you all feckin real? We fought this idiocy with Christianity and now we are expected to roll over for Islam??? What the feck?

PessaryPam · 06/12/2012 22:23

RiaUnderTheMistletoe don't bring science into this please, it doesn't deserve it. It is logical and evidence based.

RiaUnderTheMistletoe · 06/12/2012 22:24

Yes we totally won the battle about not telling children Christian stories ie the Nativity Hmm How is one child not participating in a Christian celebration rolling over for Islam?

Sirzy · 06/12/2012 22:24

Who is asking you to "roll over for Islam" ?

The OPs choice to withdraw her son from an event her religion doesn't agree with has no impact upon anyone but her and her son. It has nothing to do with anyone else and certainly isn't expecting anyone to roll over for islam.

RiaUnderTheMistletoe · 06/12/2012 22:25

Are you suggesting that for the first time in human history we have got logic right?

IneedAgoldenNickname · 06/12/2012 22:26

It's taken me all day to read this thread Xmas Grin

OP, yanbu! If depicting prophets is against your religion, then a play depicting prophets is against your religion!

Can't believe how many people on this thread seem to have missed the point!

MrTumblesCrackWhore · 06/12/2012 22:28

Yes, but the majority, in this country, doesn't believe what the OP believes in, otherwise nativity plays wouldn't be such a regular feature in UK schools. I understand that for some, religious beliefs override fitting in at school - but that doesn't mean I think it is right for the OP to do that.

Thanks for the further clarification of the term 'truism' - I don't think that many people up in court for murder or burglary can claim innocence because there is no scientific right or wrong, though.

Sirzy · 06/12/2012 22:30

Do we really want to raise children to do things which go against their beliefs (or the beliefs they are being raised in if to young to decide for themselves) simply to fit in? Im not sure that is the best message to give really!

elizaregina · 06/12/2012 22:31

christmas is supposed to be light and fun for children, i know when i was little the nativity was a nice story - my mum was relgious my dad very atheist poking fun at her - it was all light hearted - it didnt affect her faith and it didnt affect his atheism....relgion was one part of the pie of our busy lives growing up.

i went to church with my mum, sometimes i enjoyed it sometimes not - i didnt think about it too much - and the play - the nativity play was something i really liked purely because i loved acting and i liked the " story".

I think its really sad when paretns become way to heavey about things that children might not - and might not even cross thier minds.

there is so much misery in the world - relgious or not - the nativity play is very sweet and something to give another dimension to christmas...you can take it very serioulsy or you can take it as another one of the heart warming christmas stories out there that reminds us of humanity - just like the xmas fillm " its a wonderful life" and how you take that is your choice.

RiaUnderTheMistletoe · 06/12/2012 22:33

Perhaps it would be clearer to say personal morality is more important than fitting in. If your dc's friends were doing something you felt was fundamentally immoral, even if lots of people did it, would you be happy for your dc to join in? Even before they were old enough to judge for themselves? Personally I'd like my children to learn that standing up for their principals is more important than conforming.

FromEsme · 06/12/2012 22:34

MrTumble so what if the majority of people don't agree with the OP's beliefs? Since when was that a reason for doing/not doing something.

elizaregina you are spectacularly missing the point. The nativity is against the OP's religious beliefs. You can't just go "arr, but it's fun, ain't it?"

FromEsme · 06/12/2012 22:35

I agree Ria I think one of the most important things we can teach children is that fitting in is not the most important thing.

exoticfruits · 06/12/2012 22:36

If he ever abstains from something like this in the future, it will be because HE wants to, not because I've told him to.

No religion or system of beliefs should ever put their ridiculous doctrines in front of the happiness and growth of kids

Well said! I am very thankful that my parents put me first-it must be horrible to have a parent who gets all uptight about such things-it certainly gives you something to rebel against as you grow older.

FromEsme · 06/12/2012 22:41

exotic You could argue that not stealing is a ridiculous doctrine. There's no actual reason it's morally incorrect, it just is so in our society.

Yet I doubt anyone would be queuing up on here to say "well, by teaching your child not to steal you are forcing your own ridiculous moral beliefs on her/him".

MrTumblesCrackWhore · 06/12/2012 22:41

Well, the phrase 'fitting in' is probably a bit misleading. I didn't want to use the word 'integrating' for fear of being misinterpreted, given the OP's concerns on the thread early on.

No, I don't believe we should bring up children to fit it, but at the age ds1 is, being pulled out of his nativity play on religious grounds would really upset him, because he would have no understanding of why that would happen. When he gets to an age, in a few years time (he's only 3!) when he starts to understand what religion is and develops his own set of beliefs, then I would hope he would stand up for what he believes in, whether it is what I, or his peers, believe in or not. Until then, I'll just go with the flow and encourage what I think will help him develop happily at school.

exoticfruits · 06/12/2012 22:45

I am not going to engage with that silly statement. A nativity is part of our culture. I would let a DC take part in anything to do with the culture-e.g. celebrate Diwali, Hanukkah, the summer solstice etc if they were asked to.
I certainly wouldn't stop them so that the only reason the could give is 'mummy wouldn't like it' or 'mummy doesn't believe in God'.

Original poster
Spru · 06/12/2012 22:47

No religion or system of beliefs should ever put their ridiculous doctrines in front of the happiness and growth of kids. Do you want your child to grow up tolerant, balanced and rounded? If so, let him take part. He, nor you, are not going to get struck by a bolt of lightening. Seriously.

MrTumbleCW Are you seriously saying that not partaking in nativity is going to make my child intolerant, imbalanced, and not well rounded? Shock
Is that your belief?

Oh, and thank you for telling me that I will not get struck down by lightening - of course that was my fear all along because by default, if I have certain beliefs then I must also believe that I will be struck down by lightening if i don't follow those beliefs right! Hmm

That has made me change my stance on the whole thing! NOT!

OP posts:
PlaySchool · 06/12/2012 22:48

But you have to transfer your principals, morals and beliefs to your children. You are their guide. It is not for them to make their own decisions at such a young age.

RiaUnderTheMistletoe · 06/12/2012 22:48

I would hope school/nursery would support the parent and make sure a young child wasn't upset, by giving them the very important job of drawing snowflakes or whatever. Not joining in shouldn't have to be upsetting.

exoticfruits · 06/12/2012 22:50

being pulled out of his nativity play on religious grounds would really upset him, because he would have no understanding of why that would happen. When he gets to an age, in a few years time (he's only 3!) when he starts to understand what religion is and develops his own set of beliefs, then I would hope he would stand up for what he believes in,

Exactly-such a sensible post.

RiaUnderTheMistletoe · 06/12/2012 22:50

Exactly PlaySchool

exoticfruits · 06/12/2012 22:52

They will decide for themselves when older. If my mother was going to stop such a fun thing as a nativity with all the other children I would make up my mind pretty young that she was wrong! One thing is for certain-I would vow never to do it to my children!

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