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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU to think that when all things are considered, teachers are on the equivalent of NMW?

191 replies

Glossynotflossy · 03/12/2012 07:24

The extra time spent at home planning, making reources, time spent buying resources (out of your own pocket) basically means that teachers, in reality, are on the equivalent or just above NMW for all the work outside of the actual classroom?

OP posts:
Seabird72 · 03/12/2012 14:12

It is true of most jobs - my husband is on call 24/7 and he works in an insurance office - he also volunteers and they seem to think that by volunterring he should make himself available every spare second he can and even leave work early to help them out! Husband only gets 4 weeks per year in annual holiday and teachers get 13 - so take away the usual 4 weeks most people get and they get an extra 9 weeks and don't have to worry about holiday childcare arrangements that others have to. I have heard teachers complaining about the extra paperwork and all the marking etc - but again true of alot of jobs like police work where the Government has just created all these forms to complete. Perhaps the rule should be that teachers should stay in school to mark work rather than taking it home - and just work until 5pm like most other workers. I know that would probably be easier for primary school teachers who don't have huge essays to mark but I do think things like marking are all part and parcel of the job.

chicaguapa · 03/12/2012 14:20

These threads always go round and round in circles. Hmm To summarise:

  1. Teaching different subjects has a different out-of-school workload - it's not always possible to compare between them.

  2. To be an outstanding teacher you have to put in lots and lots of extra hours, to be an ok one, you don't.

  3. There are lots of shit hard jobs out there. I'm sure many people doing them resent a public perception that they are easy/ great jobs and they are entitled to stand up for themselves. It's not just teachers, but it includes them.

  4. Most public service jobs, ie police, nurses, teachers etc, do their jobs because it's a vocation and they want to, in spite of the crap working conditions, lack of respect from sections of the public and the often poor pay.

  5. No matter how many times you hear how shit hard a job it is, you will never ever fully appreciate it unless you are a teacher or married to one. So trying to convince people is a non-starter.

Lougle · 03/12/2012 14:23

DH is also on 24 hour call for the school. If an alarm is set off, he is called.

chicaguapa · 03/12/2012 14:26

Where does 13 weeks' holiday come from btw? I see this a lot on these threads and not sure why?

LoopsInHoops · 03/12/2012 14:30

Seabird, you have hit the nail on the head there.

If only teachers could go to work at 9, get as much done as they can and leave at 5 on the dot, this conversation wouldn't be had every day on MN. It's self-perpetuating. There is always more you can do. It's not about marking, it's about the ridiculous expectations on you to all be outstanding all of the time (is that even possible?).

If only you weren't allowed to take work home but had to go in during the holidays, I bet a lot of teachers would be relieved.

Again, not me though. I do very little outside of school and plan to spend n more than 5 hours this holidays on work. :)

AfterEightMintyy · 03/12/2012 14:30

I don't think this thread is going round in circles. I don't think anyone has agreed that being a teacher means you are earning at the same level as someone on minimum wage. Its a thread where people are pretty much in agreement, imo.

LoopsInHoops · 03/12/2012 14:32

39 weeks of school, 13 weeks of holiday per UK school calendar.

nameuschangeus · 03/12/2012 14:43

Ooh this sort of thing makes me cross. The teachers who complain of being hard done by should leave to work in a NMW job. Then they can decide where they're better off.

lisad123 · 03/12/2012 14:46

If a teacher was working for £40k a year, at their current wage, on a normal job of 52 weeks a year they would earn £53k. Hardly NMW Smile

AmberLeaf · 03/12/2012 15:02

Ooh what a stirry thread!

Has the OP been back yet?

Feenie · 03/12/2012 15:05

givemeaclue Mon 03-Dec-12 13:33:02

I would cut the leave to the standard 5 weeks.

And where would you find the extra money to pay teachers for the additional 8 weeks? Never gonna happen.

stopthatmavis · 03/12/2012 15:27

Op probably won't have a chance to respond till at least 10 tonight, what with those terribly long hours she puts in.

givemeaclue · 03/12/2012 15:36

They are already paid for the extra 8 weeks. But don't work them

LoopsInHoops · 03/12/2012 15:38

No, again, they aren't paid for the holidays, but the pay is spread.

fairylightsandtinsel · 03/12/2012 15:55

jumping on late here but just read the last but one post- is there anyone on MN who still think teachers get paid for all of 13 weeks holiday?? No, we don't. Our pay is based on the weeks we DO work plus 4 weeks holiday. The rest of the time is unpaid but the total is broken into 12 equal payments, or every month would be different. The amount we do during holidays / weekends / before and afterschool varies hugely depending on age group, subject, role, involvement in extra-curricular etc. And I do wish people wouldn't always say that "well its not ONLY teachers.." no-one is saying it is, but you often get the martyr teacher threads in repsonse to a teacher bashing one, of which there are a fair few, wheras there tend to be fewer about some of the other professions with similar conditions.

AfterEightMintyy · 03/12/2012 15:56
Xmas Confused

In that case teachers must be pretty unique amongst non self-employed people. Everyone else gets paid holidays.

LivvyPsMum · 03/12/2012 16:01

If you are a teacher, and that is what you think - go do something else! See how you get on with only 4 weeks holiday a year! What a load of bollocks!

manicinsomniac · 03/12/2012 16:03

YABU because teachers don't work for an hourly rate, we have a salary which, imo, means doing what is necessary, when it's necessary. You accept the salary and then don't think about the time. That's what any profesisonal job is surely, there are no set hours?

Plus - there's down time occasionally which may not be the case in a nmw job. For example, I'm teaching/working till 8 tonight (boarding school) but I'm on mumsnet right now and have been for 10 minutes! (though, I'm running late now due to replying - why do interesting teacher threads always start when the teachers are at work. Grrrr!)

sarahseashell · 03/12/2012 16:09

YABU

LDNmummy · 03/12/2012 16:21

*"These threads always go round and round in circles. To summarise:

  1. Teaching different subjects has a different out-of-school workload - it's not always possible to compare between them.

  2. To be an outstanding teacher you have to put in lots and lots of extra hours, to be an ok one, you don't.

  3. There are lots of shit hard jobs out there. I'm sure many people doing them resent a public perception that they are easy/ great jobs and they are entitled to stand up for themselves. It's not just teachers, but it includes them.

  4. Most public service jobs, ie police, nurses, teachers etc, do their jobs because it's a vocation and they want to, in spite of the crap working conditions, lack of respect from sections of the public and the often poor pay.

  5. No matter how many times you hear how shit hard a job it is, you will never ever fully appreciate it unless you are a teacher or married to one. So trying to convince people is a non-starter."*

This is exactly what I was going to say.

If you are a teacher who is only spending an hour a day prepping and not spending half your holiday preparing for the following academic year, then you are a just barely an 'OK' teacher. Sorry, but its the truth.

My DH and I have been struggling so much because of his 12/ 13 hour days that he is now going to have to cut back on all the extra work he does for his students. The students will suffer and he will no longer be an outstanding teacher, but something has to give.

Long holiday's my arse!

LDNmummy · 03/12/2012 16:24

Its a shame because we should be aiming to have a society where teachers are given the resources both financially and WRT time that all teachers are more than just OK.

My DH is full of regret that he has to cut back on the extra time he dedicates to his students but it wasn't worth it anymore as he was burning out.

And he is no martyr, believe me.

Ormiriathomimus · 03/12/2012 16:32

dH earns his money in sheer stress atm. Hate hate hate fecking Ofsted!

PolkadotCircus · 03/12/2012 16:39

LDN you're lucky your dp has the choice.In IT if you don't produce outstanding code and thus cause £££££ of damage you lose your job.

Most professions expect outstanding results from their staff,teaching doesn't have the monopoly on that, stress or hours of unpaid overtime.

LDNmummy · 03/12/2012 16:53

Polka cutting back like this is DH taking a risk and potentially losing his job.

If he can't maintain his students grades he may lose his job. But, it was either cut back or quit, so he is trying to stretch to find another way.

His job is not secure and he doesn't have a choice, he has just reached his max and sees no other way IYSWIM.

If he tries this and it doesn't work out, he may move into the private sector.

Aboutlastnight · 03/12/2012 17:20

This whining about holidays actually makes me a teensy but Angry

DP is self employed and when he goes on holiday he does not get paid. Two years ago his income halved to £22,000 - he took home £14,000 after tax.

I now have paid annual leave and DP and I marvel at it: "Wow we are on holiday About, and you are still getting paid!" Grin