To tell Dsis (9) that if she "won't sit at a table where people are eating non free range turky" that she can eat her christmas dinner alone on the balcony.

[honeytea]

My lovely adorable and slightly precocious little sister is 9 and has been a self declared vegetarian since she was about 4.

My family are coming to stay with us for Christmas and my mum has kindly offered to cook Christmas dinner which is fab as I am due to give birth on the 8th (but feel like the baby is happy in my tummy and won't be here till much closer to Christmas.) I was talking to my mum and sister today about what I should buy for dinner, they fly to us on the 23rd and we have a christmas day celebration with my DP's family on the 24th so I need to get prepared. I went trough all the vegies and stuff for a nut roast, then I said maybe I will get a big chicken instead of a turky and my little sister said well you had better make sure it is free range as I won't sit at a table where there meat that is not free range, I said to her that is fine she can sit on the balcony and eat her dinner.

AIBU and a nasty big sister, I will look for a free range chicken but I don't often buy meat and I have no idea if you can even buy free range chickens in the country we live in.

She's only 9... Let's remember how we were at that age and how simplistic things seemed. She's asking her sister after all not someone she barely knows.

Seriously, nothing wrong with principles... If more people stood up for what they believed and had confidence to speak out, the world would be a better place. Don't enforce social norms... Some of them are bollocks.

At that age I ate what I was given & was grateful tbh.

OP is taking her preferences into account by cooking something that she will eat.

Why does she also get a say in what everyone else eats-isn´t that up to them?

Plus others will enforce their norms on her... Families job is to keep her confident and thinking critically.

I think I will have to have a chat about the difference between asking and explaining why and telling and giving ultimatums.

Because she's right. Non free range poultry is cruel. She's not saying I don't want brussels so no one else can have them. She's making a very intelligent and valid point.

Good idea honeytea :)

Apparently the entire consumption of whole turkeys in Sweden is about 1000 per year. There just isn't the volume to make investment in alternative farming techniques profitable. There is also the fact to consider that most of Sweden is under snow for a large part of the year, so putting turkeys outside would not be kindness to animals!

If you are looking for animal friendly meat or products in Sweden, look for the KRAV label. That standard most often requires that farmers raise their animals free range, organic.

The biggest turkey company I know of is Ingelstas's. Another that claims to have ethical techniques (not sure what that means) is Hagbygård.

Good for her I say.

I wouldn't make an ultimatum like your sister did, but sitting at the table with someone eating a bird that had suffered terribly throughout it's life would make me extremely uncomfortable. I would suck that up and cope, to be polite, but it would be difficult for me. As a child I would have lacked the filter and been more assertive. There are only really two subjects I get on my high horse about, and animal welfare is one of them. However, I hope I now have the tact to be the uncomfortable one, rather than make others uncomfortable. At 9 I doubt I would have. Although, to be honest, I don't tend to have a close relationship with anyone who doesn't care about animal welfare, so perhaps the situation wouldn't occur.

Good for her, I say.

We only buy free range meat. I applaud her for not eating the meat, but not sitting at the table is a bit ott.

Not at all relevant but I thought I'd share - studies show that free range birds have higher mortality rates than battery birds.

I'm quite amazed that after all this wine I can actually recall what a study in 2009 said. Bye bye now!

To be fair, mortality rates aren't necessarily an indicator of quality of life? Battery animals get more drugs? You can't argue for battery poultry when it comes to quality of life.

mrsmerry that info is fantastic thankyou! i think we will take a drive up to hagbygård next weekend (if im not in labour.)

whathasthecatdonenow do you have such extreme views on the welfare of people and not have any close relationships with people who for example wear clothes made by children?

You're welcome!

I don't have such extreme views on the welfare of people. As I said, two subjects make me get on my high horse: one is animal welfare. Generally I don't like people as much as I do animals, with some exceptions. I don't tend to discuss people's views on child labour outside of the classroom, tbh, but I do tend to only associate with either vegetarians or those who only eat ethically treated meat.

Yabu. She's your sister, so it's good she feels able to talk freely about her feelings to you. It is an emotive subject, I remember being horrified by all sorts of things at her age - Nazi Germany, leather, the meat industry, feather pillows, war, fois gras. Tbh I'm still horrified by these things, but have had some of the emotion seep away...

It's great that she's such a thoughtful and principled child.

She has a point but at 9 your sister should eat what she is given and be grateful.

It really pisses me off that just because she is a child she has no right to express her principles. Eat what she is given? This isn't the dark ages? We have evolved? At least some of us have.

Of course she should be able to talk about it-and expect to eat what suits her.

But I don´t think she should try to force others to do something that she wants by in effect threatening to ruin the meal for everyone.

She's not threatening to ruin the meal for everyone. She's simply stating that she won't be at the table? Her choice... And your choice. She's not being silly she has a very good reason amongst family who should support her in her beliefs. She's not asking for no meat... That would be not compromising. She's asking for free range. She's comprising and adults should be able to do the same especially in family setting. Respect...

whathasthecatdonenow I respect your views but I do hope my sister will not grow up to not want to be around me because of my meat eating.

I really think that Dsis has the right to voice her opinions but I feel like she needs to learn an appropriate and more effective way than giving ultimatums.

We are both strong willed and our mother is (very kind) but a push over, she has encouraged our opinions and confidence. It is interesting because when my and Dsis are together we are very close she is like my first baby but the dynamic is very different to that we have individually with our mother.

I would lay her a lovely place at a separate table, beautifully laid with a nice table decoration, personally, and be entirely positive about it (but tell her she's welcome to move if she changes her mind).

It's cool that she's thinking about animal welfare but she can't dictate to the rest of you. If she wants to follow through and make a stand, good for her.

honeytea, I think you misunderstand me. My family are generally farmers. I still have a close relationship with them. They care for the animals they farm and treat them well. They would not cage chickens. I have no issue with others eating meat that is ethically sourced. I would not have a relationship close enough to eat with people who could condone the mistreatment of animals. I don't necessarily think that is an extreme stance, I just wouldn't be able to find common ground with someone like that.

My friends dd won't eat tinned tuna fish, however, she's loves tinned tuna.

It's the same... We don't tell her ....same sort of thing really