To think I shouldn't be expected to give up my place in the queue just because the lady behind me was disabled?

[TangoPurple]

Apologies for the lengthy title.

Had a very busy weekend and stupidly forgot to get stuff in for dd's packed lunches/playtime snacks for this week. She also needed a new drinks bottle. So i got up an hour earlier today, and rushed to the supermarket with her before school.

I joined the queue at a till, and as the person in front was getting served, a lady in a wheelchair queued behind me. She asked if she could go in front of me as she needed to rush for the XX bus, which only comes every forty minutes. I explained that I'm also getting that bus so can't give up my space in the queue or dd will be late for school.

She looked totally shocked. She pointed out it was pissing down with rain and she'd be freezing waiting for the next one. (Just to point out - the bus stop for this bus has a large shelter and is right outside the supermarket).

She asked where i lived, i told her roughly, and she suggested i get the YY bus which would drop me a street away from my normal bus stop (normal bus stop is right outside my flat/front door).

I explained that i couldn't walk that far with dd plus all my shopping bags as she has autism and i need to hold her hand at all times. Whereas getting off at my front door, she's fine to run ahead. I was nice and mild-mannered, but she wasn't pleased. She was completely surprised and raising her eyebrows at the people queuing at the opposite till.

The till operator had heard the conversation and I think it affected how she served me. She made no eye contact, no communication (except asking for my money at the end), zoomed all my stuff through the scanner much too quickly, and spent the whole time talking to the lady in the wheelchair about bloody buses and 'lack of respect'!

During this time, the guy at the front of the opposite queue offered the lady to go in front of him which she refused as she'd already put her stuff on the conveyor belt behind mine.

I'm just so annoyed and feel like a right cow. I felt like everyone was judging me. If she only had a few items, of course i'd have let her in front, but she had more than me!

AIBU?

I got to this thread a bit late, but wanted to add my piece. flatbread to give you an example of the differences between children on the spectrum; both DS and DSD have autism and are both 6yrs old.

DS Is high functioning and can be in a mainstream classroom with support, he can talk just as well as a NT child, well just a little behind a NT child and has needed SALT to get to this stage. He has a variety of sensory issues, some that make him uncomfortable and others that cause him pain. He has some learning difficukties but there's a good chance he'll be able to live alone and hopefully hold down a job.

Dsd can't walk and is in a wheelchair, she will never be able to walk or talk. She has no control over any motor functions, she won't ever be able to wash herself or go to the toilet without help. She has no use of her hands, all her food has to be blended and spoon fed but eventually there's a strong chance she'll lose the ability to swallow and will need tube fed. She also has a short lode expectancy and will never be able to live on her own or lead any kind of 'normal' life.

Both children the same age on the same spectrum but are so different.

*life

Flatbread, why are you clinging to the assumption that the lady in the wheelchair had the "greater need"?

Unless I have missed it, the lady never gave any indication that there was a particular reason she needed to be on that bus, other than simply not wanting to miss it.

The OP, on the other hand, gave a clear reason as to why she needed to be on the bus. Her daughter's autism was a further factor - the starting point was that she needed to catch that bus or be late to take her daughter to school.

If the lady had said that she was going to be late for an appointment she had waited 2 years for, or that she was going to miss the funeral of a close relative, then the OP may well have made a different assessment of their relative needs.

But on the face of it, the lady simply wanted to catch a bus rather than wait for the next one.

I spent a lot of time in a wheelchair as a child and I am well aware of what a bloody pain in the neck an awful lot of everyday stuff is for wheelchair users. I will always offer help if it seems to be needed. I will always give up my space on a bus to a wheelchair user. I will always move seats or tables if a wheelchair user can access my place more easily. I will always intervene if I see a wheelchair user being discriminated against in any way.

And I do wheelchair users the courtesy of assuming that they are perfectly capable of making their needs known if they are not obvious.

Being in a wheelchair does not automatically mean that a person's every request or demand is reasonable. It certainly means that it is a good idea to give the request a fair bit of extra thought, because there are many everyday problems facing wheelchair users that may not be immediately apparent and, all things being equal, acceding to a request if at all possible is probably the right thing to do, simply because it may make someone's life a little easier. But if all things are not equal then it is perfectly acceptable to say "no, sorry" and to reconsider if the person gives a pressing reason why they need their request to be granted, or even if they indicate that there is such a pressing reason without detailing it.

This lady didn't do anything of the sort. She made the request and then tried to browbeat the OP into giving in to it, even when it was made clear to her that there was a more than usually good reason for the refusal.

A child with autism is a child with a recognised and valid disability. There is absolutely no way for the OP, or anyone else, to know whether a complete stranger in a wheelchair has hidden needs which may make waiting for a bus impossible. Equally, there is no way for a complete stranger in a wheelchair, or any other stranger, to know the level of difficulty that children such as the OP's daughter might face if their routine is changed. That is why people can only do the best they can on the basis of the information available to them.

That is exactly what the OP did and I can't see that she should have done anything else without more information to go on.

Oh I know - I have been told I'm lucky because ds1 can't speak.

Me too. A bunch of teenagers were swearing on the bus and the driver nodded towards ds (in SN buggy) and said that he'd be the same one day. I said I doubted it as he may never speak secretly thinking he'd be better brought up than that anyway and her reply was "think yourself lucky". Yeah right.

"think yourself lucky"

Kungfu, for me it is not a question of a hidden vs a visible disability. If OP's daughter was blind or deaf, I would have offered the same perspective.

The issue here is the ability to get on to a bus. Lady in the wheelchair could only take this bus, otherwise she would have to wait an hour (and if it was really bad weather, the next bus could have been delayed or cancelled)

OP had more bus options, albeit not as convenient. If OP's daughter was blind or deaf, she could still walk on to Y bus, which is not wheelchair-friendly and get home. But there is no way lady in the wheelchair could get onto Y bus.

If the situation had been a doctor's waiting room, and the situations reversed. I.e., OP's autistic daughter was very uncomfortable and OP asked a lady on a wheelchair if her dd could go first. I would expect the lady in the wheelchair to oblige, and would think she was being unreasonable if she didn't.

Like you said, none of us know the full details or the needs of each person. My general sense is, people ask for help only if they really need it. I perceive the lady's persistence in finding a solution, a sign of her desperation, not entitlement. We don't know if she was in great pain or had diarrhoea or had an urgent appointment. We just don't know.

This is not to say that OP was wrong, given that her dd is very distressed in the rain. But just to say that things are not so clear-cut and it not an issue of visible vs. hidden disability, but the specific situation and options available to both.

But the OP didn't have more bus options because her daughter has a disability.

It is no less of a disability than the highly visible use of a wheelchair. People don't always understand, and quite often don't seem to want to understand, the difficulties facing children with autism, but that does not make them any less real.

The lady in the wheelchair had another option - to miss the bus she wanted and to wait for the next one, thus being inconvenienced.

The OP had another option - to miss the bus she wanted and to wait for the next one, or subject her daughter to a situation that might lead to a meltdown, thus being inconvenienced.

Again, the OP could only go on the information available, and she was given no information that made her think that there was any pressing need for this particular bus. The other lady was given information that clearly indicated a pressing need for this particular bus.

If the lady in the wheelchair had been first, and the OP had asked to go first because her daughter was distressed, the other lady would have been quite right to say no, because she had a perfectly legitimate need to be served quickly, ie getting on the bus. As it happened, the OP was first and she had the same perfectly legitimate need.

No-one is wrong to make a request of this type. And no-one is wrong to refuse it if it means causing considerable problems for them. What is wrong is for the person making the request to entirely ignore the other person's explanation and to imply that their need is greater than that of another person without making any attempt to explain why that is.

When I was in a wheelchair, my mum might well have made such a request. What she wouldn't have done is then attempt to make someone else feel guilty about the fact that they weren't prepared to sacrifice their own child's needs in favour of mine.

"If the situation had been a doctor's waiting room, and the situations reversed. I.e., OP's autistic daughter was very uncomfortable and OP asked a lady on a wheelchair if her dd could go first. I would expect the lady in the wheelchair to oblige, and would think she was being unreasonable if she didn't."

By this logic, anyone who asks must automatically get, no matter what the other person's needs.

If two people's needs conflict, then someone is going to lose out. Someone isn't always to blame - there will just be occasional situations which don't have an easy resolution because life, particularly where disability is concerned, doesn't always have a neat solution.

I do love it went people decide to make stuff up to fit their stance..........

Flatbread - your arguments are all over the place here. First you said that children with autism should be taught to get over themselves. Then when posters challenged you on that, you came up with a whole host of other reasons why the OP was wrong and those have been dismantled but you're still stubbornly refusing to budge from your initial position which is basically that the needs of someone in a wheelchair trump those of every other person.

It was 40 mins for the next bus, not an hour. There is no reason why lady-in-a-wheelchair couldn't have waited in the supermarket in the warm and dry for the next bus, assuming she wasn't in a hurry to get to school. And given she had quite a large amount of stuff with her, one can assume she wasn't hurrying to her job (or presumably she would have used that as another argument to try to bully the OP into getting out of the way).

Not everyone in a wheelchair is nice. Some are selfish, entitled arses, just like some able-bodied people

I asked about coping strategies. People with all kinds of disabilities have coping strategies, you know, whether it is depression or deafness.

And it is ironic that you are so touchy about autism, but have no qualms dismissing the needs of the lady in a wheelchair and calling her a bully.

Charming

Anyway, this not going anywhere. Kungfu, fwiw, I agree with you that it is not always clearcut and hence this debate in aibu.

Flatbread it is weird normally I would be agreeing with you, as I (and I have posted this) hate the way people act as if being in a wheelchair is some how "easier" it isn't.
but you seem to want to belittle autism.
2 wrongs do not make a right.
all these "people in wheelchairs are not always nice" are shit comments as well.

Surely if the woman in the wheelchair was in that much of a desperate hurry to catch the bus she could have left her shopping and got on the bus. She chose to stay and buy her shopping, missing the bus. I don't see how any of that is op's responsibility, we all make our own choices.

Lordy, Flatbread, why don't you get a good night's sleep then come back and reread this thread with a cool head? You're reacting, but not listening.

Threesocks, I am not belittling autism, honestly.

I am just going by the situation and specific issues described in the OP. Why should I automatically assume that OP's dd has frequent meltdowns? OP hasn't mentioned it, so wouldn't that be offensive stereotyping?

OP mentioned about the rain being very uncomfortable for her dd. And that is valid in her dd's case. But can't assume that another autistic person will have the same issue. If I went and solicitously held an umbrella over my friend's autistic husband, he would think I am mad.

I guess, unless indicated otherwise, is it belittling to not assume the worst or stereotype regarding a disability? And is it belittling to think about coping strategies?

Flatbread you are, seriously you are. Just because you think your not, does not make it so

Lol, Devora, good advice Am traveling for work tomorrow and it is going to be a long week. Should catch up on sleep instead of being online.

Flatbread : your genius "develop" coping strategies applies as much to people in wheelchairs as it does autistic people. What is wrong with you? Why do you continually preach to people who,from experience,know far more than you?

Erm, if your DD has autism then she is disabled. Sure, she's not in a wheelchair but still has difficulties. I think you should have pointed out.

Really in this situation both parties had a compelling reason to be served first. Both would endure consequences from missing the bus. In this specific situation it boils down to first come first served, so the OP was NBU.

Flatbread - I have coping strategies for my daughter's deafness. She wear hearing aids and I have to hold her hand when walking down the road because she gets scared by passing traffic because it all sounds like it's on top of her. She can't judge the distance or direction of traffic based on the sound because the hearing aids amplify all sounds.

But she understands all of that. She understands why she needs to hold my hand. She understands that sometimes the traffic is further away than it sounds.

It's not comparable with the coping strategies the parents of children with autism use.

You keep asking about the coping strategies but people have already explained that keeping to a routine, avoiding triggers and the like are the coping strategies that enable their children to access the 'real world'.

And you're right, the OP didn't mention in her OP that her daughter has meltdowns but many children with autism have meltdowns, it sort of goes with the territory.

I am just going by the situation and specific issues described in the OP. Why should I automatically assume that OP's dd has frequent meltdowns? OP hasn't mentioned it, so wouldn't that be offensive stereotyping?

No more offensive than the assumptions you have made about the lady in the wheelchair.

sorry but my daughters life isn't a chore. I have NEVER EVER been offered a place in front ina queue though despite the fact it's obvious she find queuing difficult. That's life I suppose

I don't think the OP is being unreasonable either, but I suppose life is limited enough when you can only catch x bus because y bus isn't accessible. That is the bus company's fault

in opther news, I had a woman have a passive aggressive go at me in tesco because she wanted to be served first because she had to do the school run. I ignored her, but I had to do the school run myself to a school further away. The woman stormed off and the woman standing behind me gave me a look and I said I couldn't offer her in front of me because she had more shopping, quite a lot more, and I had to pick my son up from school myself. She said, she had to do the same as well :o I think people just get in a dither about stuff, that's all. Don't tak it personal

Yes, I couldn't hold my DD's hand and carry shopping, she likes to run out into the road regularly.

Flatbread.

I think i might understand what you're trying to say.

Physically, dd and I could catch the YY bus. I could drag her/carry her onto it, restrain her while she lashes out at me and other passengers, and then drag her and my shopping bags ten minutes home in the rain while she screams in 'agony'.

But then again, you could argue that the woman in the wheelchair could also get the YY bus. The driver could help fold up her chair. He could then carry her onto the bus like i'd have to do with dd. He could then carry her back off and put her back in her chair.

You might scream in horror about the idea of demeaning a disabled adult like this, but why should i inflict the same level of discomfort onto my daughter just because she has working legs?

For what it's worth, i wouldn't have taken my dd on the YY bus (made that mistake before). If I'd have missed XX bus, I'd pay out for a taxi (which I can't really afford but needs must).

And the woman wasn't elderly or frail - she was perhaps late 40's/early 50's.

wtf?

I think i will leave this and go and clean my chickens out. that is the most ridiculous post i have ever read on here