To think I shouldn't be expected to give up my place in the queue just because the lady behind me was disabled?

[TangoPurple]

Apologies for the lengthy title.

Had a very busy weekend and stupidly forgot to get stuff in for dd's packed lunches/playtime snacks for this week. She also needed a new drinks bottle. So i got up an hour earlier today, and rushed to the supermarket with her before school.

I joined the queue at a till, and as the person in front was getting served, a lady in a wheelchair queued behind me. She asked if she could go in front of me as she needed to rush for the XX bus, which only comes every forty minutes. I explained that I'm also getting that bus so can't give up my space in the queue or dd will be late for school.

She looked totally shocked. She pointed out it was pissing down with rain and she'd be freezing waiting for the next one. (Just to point out - the bus stop for this bus has a large shelter and is right outside the supermarket).

She asked where i lived, i told her roughly, and she suggested i get the YY bus which would drop me a street away from my normal bus stop (normal bus stop is right outside my flat/front door).

I explained that i couldn't walk that far with dd plus all my shopping bags as she has autism and i need to hold her hand at all times. Whereas getting off at my front door, she's fine to run ahead. I was nice and mild-mannered, but she wasn't pleased. She was completely surprised and raising her eyebrows at the people queuing at the opposite till.

The till operator had heard the conversation and I think it affected how she served me. She made no eye contact, no communication (except asking for my money at the end), zoomed all my stuff through the scanner much too quickly, and spent the whole time talking to the lady in the wheelchair about bloody buses and 'lack of respect'!

During this time, the guy at the front of the opposite queue offered the lady to go in front of him which she refused as she'd already put her stuff on the conveyor belt behind mine.

I'm just so annoyed and feel like a right cow. I felt like everyone was judging me. If she only had a few items, of course i'd have let her in front, but she had more than me!

AIBU?

I'm not offended. I think you are blinkered and dismissive of others' experiences.
But as I said, it's a very common attitude.

Mine loves the rain, hates the sun. Better once he learned that despite his desires, he really needed to not ' take his clothes off and go dancing in the rain'

Ah, so you are being provocative and have just ignored the post where I included where the OP described her daughters reaction to rain - here it is again in case you blinked.

"Flatbread, it's really not that simple. I can't believe i'm having to do this for the second time today, but dd doesn't just dislike rain - she hates it. She says it's sore when it lands on her skin. She says the noise of it makes her ears sore too. She thinks that if she gets wet, she can't breathe. And god help us if she gets even a drop of it on her glasses.

No matter how much i force rain onto her, she'll never just get used to it.

We've established some coping strategies so that she no longer freaks out as much. She can just about tolerate light rain now, but when it's as heavy as it was today, it causes her great upset and - according to her - pain."

Flatbread lots of people with autism have almost reversed pain senses

I.e. oddly calm having experienced sever injury but rolling round screaming that it hurts when just unexpectedly touched/ looked at or the wind. As well as other things

OP, YANBU. Stop worrying!

I usually wouldn't let myself be wound up by such comments as Flatbreads but I'm struggling to let these go...

Flat, my DS2 is Autistic. One of the things that triggers a meltdown is wind. The feel of it in his hair, his ears. He cannot bear to be out in blowy conditions, it feels to him like it is chasing him. No amount of exposure will 'cure' him, and frankly I am amazed that a seemingly educated, clearly articulate woman such as yourself could think that. Your ignorance is astounding. It's not just 'uncomfortable' for the OPs DD, it causes her pain.

That you seem to think Autism can be overcome by 'getting used to the real world' is breathtakingly dim. My DS will likely never live independently, never go to uni and meet new people, get married, hold down any sort of job, have children. And those are the biggies. He'll never fly a kite, ride a bike, or blow out the candles of a birthday cake. It makes me cry most days, so forgive me if I don't spend all my energy trying to get him used to the wind, (which should be a fucking doddle in the world according to Flatbread) because each bloody day is tough enough as it is.

Go away, read up on Autism, which affects so many, and then come back and fucking well apologise for not realising that its not as simple as 'getting on with it'.

Who's getting offended? Just trying to educate the ignorant.

Begonia,

Actually I owe a huge apology to OP. I somehow missed all of that, I read it but didn't register (I was probably cooking at the same time) .

I just went back and re-read based on your post. Yes, it sounds like it was a major deal to OP's daughter and she probably did the right thing.

And apologies to all of you who thought I was dismissing your dc's similar experiences, I thought you were projecting. But you weren't, you were sympathising with what OP explained in that later post.

Although i still think she should have tried to hold the bus for the lady. And I strongly disagree that the wheelchair lady was acting entitled (unless I missed some later posts that described things further)

Oh god flatbread, you're the gift that just keeps on giving aren't you....

My dd ates the wind. Itook her out in it and t triggered a big meltdown

*To those of you with autistic children, if you shield them from all normal inconveniences, be it rain or late buses or a change in schedule, how do you expect them to cope with these things when they grow up and live in the real world?

Unless you are a recluse, you cannot avoid these, to an extent. Wouldn't it be better to help them find coping strategies rather than avoiding these normal life situations?*

Just catching up with this thread as I've been allowed out. We have always tried to expose ds to normal life situations, we haven't shut him away, but he is 12 years old and only just becoming able to cope with these 'normal' situations in a limited way. When he was 4 it was just impossible. He will never be able to go out by himself as he would be run over in about 5 mins, even though we've spent the last 12 years trying to teach him to look out for moving vehicles/stay on the pavement etc. Helping them to cope isn't just a case of 'just do it they will get used to it', it's a long hard slog for us and them and sometimes they are only able to overcome fears when they gain a little maturity. You can't force it.

When your outwits an autistic child the main thing is getting them home as quickly and smoothly and safely as possible. So in op situation I wuld have not thought to give my place to anyone, nor would I be expected to. my dd needs and holding whilst out, but she can turn volatile very quickly and could put herself mostly in danger, so the long convoluted route from the bus stop would not be be safe.

Ryle, glad I keep you entertained

So, OP, my revised perspective

In your specific case -yanbu

People who would prioritise their non-autistic children getting to school on time above the needs of the wheelchair lady -yabu and selfish

Those who said they would ignore her request even if they were on their own - yabvvvu and a twat ( except if you have a genuine emergency)

Bloody hell. It only took 200 posts and a lot of upset

flatbread, as amusing as your dimwitted posts have been i think by now no one, especially the OP cares for you opinions on if she was BU or not!

i also can not believe that you actually have the cheek to then call others 'selfish, vvvu and a twat'!!

I am one of those that feels the OP was not BU, and i would not give up my place in the queue except in VERY rare circumstances when i am feeling nice! but i think in this thread your posts have been 'selfish, vvvu and a twat'

Thanks again for all your replies.

I still feel a wee bit guilty about the whole scenario - and feeling a bit dubious about ever returning there in the near future - but not as much as i did yesterday morning

Thanks for the apology, Flatbread, and sorry if i was snipey with you. But in a way I think it's good you replied as you did.

You (hopefully) then read the replies explaining what autism actually is like.

For the record, my dd is on the high functioning end of the spectrum, so there's every possibility of her 'living in the real world' if she wishes, but there are also people on the low and middle ends of the spectrum who will require so much more support. Perhaps loads more than someone in a wheelchair who's able to get themselves to a supermarket and back by themselves. I think it's the parents of these children you should aim your apology at.

Tango - are you going to complain aboutnthentill OP? You wouldn't have been feeling so bad if she had just got on with her job.

Not really sure if I have the balls to complain, Begonia! I'm actually a bit of a wuss.

But you're right, it's mainly her reaction to me which is putting me off going back to that particular shop. I think I might email them with the receipt details. If i don't hear back, I'll try phoning.

Tango,

I did get a sense from your posts that your daughter was in the higher functioning end. And somehow I got the impression that the lady in the wheelchair was older and not in general good health.

At the end of the day, all these decisions are about judgement calls on whose needs are greater. It is not about a hypothetical argument on which disability trumps, but about the specific situation on whose disability had a greater need at that particular time and instance. E.g., someone with mild MS giving up their seat for a person on crutches.

I don't see why we have to imagine the scenario of a very disabled autistic child and an entitled, in-the-wheelchair but very capable woman. This doesn't seem to be the specific scenario here. If it was, the OP would have been worded differently.

I didn't quite read your post regarding your dd's reaction to the rain. For some reason I thought you said she frets if her skirt gets wet (not every autistic child finds the rain difficult). Which is of course very different from how you described it in a later post and i apologised for that and to parents who described their child as having similar reaction. They had read your posts more carefully than I had, and thought I was trivialising the discomfort in the rain.

Twoface, yup, if you were alone and wouldn't give your place to the woman in the wheelchair and walk the extra 10 minutes on yy bus, then that would be very very selfish and twatish. I do hope you have never asked anyone for help, because it is people like you who put others off from helping strangers.

I did get a sense from your posts that your daughter was in the higher functioning end. And somehow I got the impression that the lady in the wheelchair was older and not in general good health.

Ironic really that you have accused other posters of projecting things that aren't there onto the OP then post this. Where exactly did the OP mention the age of the lady in the wheelchair? You are still trying to justify yourself even after you have admitted you were wrong to call the OP selfish for not giving up her place in the queue.

Flatbread I did get a sense from your posts that your daughter was in the higher functioning end I seriously doubt you had ever even heard the term until halfway through this thread.

At the end of the day, all these decisions are about judgement calls on whose needs are greater. It is not about a hypothetical argument on which disability trumps, but about the specific situation on whose disability had a greater need at that particular time and instance. E.g., someone with mild MS giving up their seat for a person on crutches. Once again, complete and utter ignorance.

not every autistic child finds the rain difficult You are not in any position to state anything about autistic children at all.

and thought I was trivialising the discomfort in the rain You were.

Twoface, yup, if you were alone and wouldn't give your place to the woman in the wheelchair and walk the extra 10 minutes on yy bus, then that would be very very selfish and twatish. I do hope you have never asked anyone for help, because it is people like you who put others off from helping strangers For the last time, the woman in the wheelchair made herself late for the bus. All she had to do was wait for the next one - as anyone else does who is late for their bus. People have many and varied reasons for not letting her go first and none of them have to be approved by you, of all people.

The checkout assistant should not be giving her tuppence worth on such a topic. You were not doing anything wrong! You didn't jump in front of the woman, neither did you tell her to fuck off. If you think the supermarket employee was taking sides, then you should definitely complain. If you think that's going to make you feel even worse, then don't. (Personally, I would.)

Either way, that shouldn't stop you from going back in there. You have every right to do your shopping wherever you damn-well please. Life is too short.

OP mentioned in her original post that the tiller muttered about 'lack of respect'. Usually a term used with regard to older people.

And she only mentioned the need to hold her dd's hand because of her autism, not any other issue.

At that point, I think wheelchair lady's needs are greater, as OP might be able to juggle bags and hold dd.

But add in that it was raining and OP's daughter finds it deeply uncomfortable, then dd's needs trump.

I am reading between the lines, but not really projecting anything, as I have no beef one way or the other. It is not as simple as 'my child has a disability so it trumps every one else's needs in all situations'. Social interactions are often grey and it is a judgement call.

What is a "wheelchair lady" anyway, some superhuman hybrid of a wheelchair and a person?

I suspect that the OP only mentioned the handholding in reference to her daughter's autism because anyone who understands anything about autism understands what some of the potential difficulties might be and so, even though they don't know the specifics, can make an adequate prediction regarding the difficulties this might pose.

I don't have a child with autism so I don't have a personal point to make either. And I don't think anyone was saying that having a child with a disability trumps anyone else's needs, but in this case it was fairly cut and dried to be honest.

Like everyone else, I don't think the lady was in the wrong to ask. But i don't think the OP was wrong to say no. I do think the lady was rude to pursue it and I definitely think the till operator was wrong for getting involved on any level.

Tango, I have rethought my position, and decided that YANBU, because of your daughter's issues - meaning you also were dealing with a disability that meant you needed to catch the same bus. It was an awkward situation though, and I don't think the other woman was wrong to ask.

As someone else said, I think if you were alone, you should have let the lady go first (and I expect you would have).

To all the people saying the person with the wheelchair should not have 'made herself late' - you have no knowledge why she was pressed for time. All sorts of things could have happened. Just because someone is disabled doesn't mean they can be superhuman in organisational skills (and luck) and miraculously avoid every issue that makes everyone else in the world late for something occasionally.

And after all, OP was also running late/close to the edge in getting the bus. If you're criticising the woman with the wheelchair for that, you should also criticise OP. Although I don't think either should be criticised.