Tory haters: shouldn't you start reining this in?

[Abitwobblynow]

Because the golden geese who have to pay for what you believe are entitlements and who you despise so much, are flying away:

"Almost half of all Britons who emigrate each year are professionals and company managers, potentially threatening the country?s supply of highly skilled workers, research for the Home Office found.
The attractions of a better lifestyle and climate, as well as career opportunities, meant a ?large and increasing? number of executives, scientists, academics and doctors have chosen to leave Britain in the last 20 years, the report said.
Business leaders blamed high rates of income tax for the ?disturbing? rises in the number of professionals leaving Britain for countries such as Australia, American and Canada. Around 149,000 British citizens emigrated last year, and 4.7 million now live overseas."

What do you think? Has the class resentment poison gone just a bit too far, and isn't it just a bit outdated? And was Labour right to stoke this narrative up?

Doh! What I meant was that the Conservatives have raised the fees to the point where they actively encourage people to study abroad as well as dissuading people from study.

The only economies going great guns under advanced capitalism are state capitalist.

Not just literacy and numeracy; science teaching has also been degraded; maths (as in, further than arithmetic and numeracy) has been degraded. All at a time when standards should have been raised, refined, strengthened.
All because Labour wanted more children to pass so it would look as if standards had been raised. Self-serving hypocrisy and abandonment of those who need support. Or never mind support, just a damn good education.

OP you have goaded people with your inflammatory OP, make several sweeping statements about, lefties, lefty tactics etc then sit back smugly saying look at all the lefties (who are all bunched together as "you lot" ) being sneery, disrespectful etc when people respond - What are you trying to achieve - are you actually interested in the debate or just trying to make a point about Tory Haters (which you are doing badly by the way) and I have to agree with previous poster hate is a very strong word- this is not the first time you have posted inflammatory comments to try and prove your stereotypes about lefties - should a lefty respond they are accused of disparaging you? So it's one rule for you (okay to disagree with and stereotype lefties) but no-one is allow to do it back? Poor thread I'm out

I hope higher fees do discourage those people who should never have gone to university anyway and who were only encouraged to go under Labour to cover up their failure of basic education and keep them off the jobless queue.

I helped DS at 9 study IGCSE Maths, it's much harder than the GCSE. Although from what I have seen the GCSE is actually more demanding now than it was in 1989 but children are getting higher grades. I'm no expert though, so stand to be corrected.

And don't get me started on the Ebacc's undermining of the Arts.

I think Michael Gove must have been bitten by a musician / artist / ballerina at a formative age.

my husband is a highly skilled engineer and the only reason we still live here is because we have a severely disabled child. We would have moved years ago. Engineers are so poorly treated in this country and poorly paid in comparison to on the continent and further. Manufacturing and Design to completion just doesn't happen in this country anymore and it's to do with greed and profit

It should ability, not ability to pay that dictates who gets a university education, brycie

The only economies going great guns under advanced capitalism are state capitalist.

You mean China? You can't compare the Uk with China. China is a developing country with huge unmet domestic demand. Most people in China don't yet have a car or a laptop so the growth for things like that is massive vs. the UK where it's a mature market. Hence their manufacturing sector is going gangbusters. Their labour costs are very low (although rising), and actually a lot of people live and work in pretty shitty conditions. If you asked someone from the UK to work at Foxconn they wouldn't last the day.

State capitalism suits them now because they have quite a lot of margin for error and they can act quickly and decisively, but they are quietly and gradually releasing their grip and Chinese people are very very individualist/capitalist in their outlook.

Or do you mean countries like Norway/Sweden?

Yes so it should - unfortunately Labour's self serving policy of encouraging people to go to university to get them off the dole merely made it unaffordable to fund the students who really had the ability to make the most of it.

Yes Igcse IS HArder that's why so many independent schools do it.

Could you be clear about what you mean by 'the habits that result in poverty'?

If it's really all about skills mismatch and people not being up to scratch, then why is it that those with actual business degrees are less likely to get a foothold in a FTSE company than those with philosophy 3rds from the 'right' university? Also, why is it that the person running the country has never done a day's work in his life?

Because many business degrees are intellectually unrigorous and don't mean you're any good at business, and because a 3rd at some universities is worth more than a 1st at others. I know some pretty bright people with 3rds from Cambridge.

This is kind of what is meant by people not listening to employers. Employers say "we prefer graduates in traditional academic subjects from Russell Group universities".........and then people wonder why their media studies from Luton isn't in demand.

I agree that the University were encouraged to overexpand. My father ran a University through the eighties and early 90s. They had to expand their intake by 5% a year, or they would suffer effective funding cuts.

However, that still does not make it right that the ability to pay / willingness to get in debt will play a major part in deciding who gets a university education now.

If the Government's aim is to reduce the number of students with weak degrees, they should be open about that and make the academic entrance criteria tougher, so only the brightest get in, irrespective of wealth.

Employers do seem to prefer that but every time I've seen employers griping about academic standards in the press it's all along the lines of potential employees not having business skills? The whole 'which college you go to' thing is endemic in the city and manufacturing which actually I think was at least in part responsible for the decline of industry - people with no business acumen at all heading up companies which were expected to compete globally, but they got the job because entrenched ideas about privilege.

Could you be clear about what you mean by 'the habits that result in poverty'?

Voting New Labour?

Did the op just drop a bomb and leave? Or has she been back and I have missed it.

For what it's worth op YABU...hth

Tories historically have been considerer bosses party.

On money. Well a lot of wealth is inherited; and so is a lot of poverty.

We cannot seem to escape our. history. as a society.

The attractions of a better lifestyle and climate, as well as career opportunities, meant a ?large and increasing? number of executives, scientists, academics and doctors have chosen to leave Britain in the last 20 years, the report said.

Goodbye, make sure the door doesn't hit you on the way out.

The thing is young single educated go getters tend to move around a bit. A lot of them also come back. A lot of them also come into the country, well, they do unless the Tories have something to do with it.

No.

The number of professional leaving the country would be matched by a new generation of highly qualified homegrown professionals if the young weren't being actively deterred from higher education by extortionate tuition fees hiked up ninefold by those lovely, egalitarian tories you're so fond of, OP.

Oh, & removing the charitable status of private schools charging more per term than dh & i earn collectively in a month, & redistributing those tax breaks to state schools might level the playing field prior to higher education & help create a larger, more socially mobile professional class, drawing from the lower & lower middles rather than just the upper middles upwards.

Yeh, i'm a socialist & incredibly proud to be on the side of generosity & kindness rather than greed & selfishness of individualism & the 'free'market (lol) ...watcha gonna do abaht it?

"If the Government's aim is to reduce the number of students with weak degrees, they should be open about that and make the academic entrance criteria tougher, so only the brightest get in, irrespective of wealth. "

Unfortunately we're going in the opposite direction with the LibDem championing of Les Ebdon whose sole purpose seems to be getting students who were badly educated under Labour into university at the expense of their better educated peers.

Hopefully you disapprove of that.

"The number of professional leaving the country would be matched by a new generation of highly qualified homegrown professionals if the young weren't being actively deterred from higher education by extortionate tuition fees hiked up ninefold by those lovely, egalitarian tories you're so fond of, OP. "

A lot of them aren't fit for it.

Let's change that to ""The number of professional leaving the country would be matched by a new generation of highly qualified homegrown professionals if the young weren't so badly educated in comparison with nations that didn't degrade their education systems so leaving pupils deeply unprepared for a fulfilling professional life."

"Every time I've seen employers griping about academic standards in the press it's all along the lines of potential employees not having business skills? "

I've read them complaining about willingness to work and basic competence.