Tory haters: shouldn't you start reining this in?

[Abitwobblynow]

Because the golden geese who have to pay for what you believe are entitlements and who you despise so much, are flying away:

"Almost half of all Britons who emigrate each year are professionals and company managers, potentially threatening the country?s supply of highly skilled workers, research for the Home Office found.
The attractions of a better lifestyle and climate, as well as career opportunities, meant a ?large and increasing? number of executives, scientists, academics and doctors have chosen to leave Britain in the last 20 years, the report said.
Business leaders blamed high rates of income tax for the ?disturbing? rises in the number of professionals leaving Britain for countries such as Australia, American and Canada. Around 149,000 British citizens emigrated last year, and 4.7 million now live overseas."

What do you think? Has the class resentment poison gone just a bit too far, and isn't it just a bit outdated? And was Labour right to stoke this narrative up?

We pay higher rate taxes. We do not object if those taxes are going to support those who need support- the hard working lower paid, those who cannot find work, healthcare, education, infrastructure, science and research.

We do not salt our money away in tax avoidance schemes which become more prevalent the higher up the income ladder one goes. We are Labour through and through. All parties make mistakes. But the Cuntservative Party have an ugliness like a canker running through them. And when the newspapers grow a pair, the full extent of this will be exposed, clear for all to see.

Truly the nasty party.

It doesn't hurt - probably not as much as being in opposition and universally regarded as incompetent. It's childish.

I object to paying higher taxes as quite large amounts of it are pissed up a wall.

The polls don't reflect your misapprehension Brycie. Think it is the Cuntservatives who are regarded as incompetent.

We have a minority government and an acting prime minister. Not much of an achievement is it?

According to the US 50% more Americans live abroad now than 10 years ago. I bet they are mostly professional (& mostly in london! ). It's the way of the world, people who can travel and move around do and nowadays it's easier.

I have no proof of this but my own experience is that selling all our companies to foreign companies hasn't helped. Kraft moved most of the management of cadbury to Zurich. But hey we can't interfere with the market can we?

Competent? Labour had one imperative - to raise the prospects and conditions of the least privileged. Everything else was supposed to be a means to that end.

Outcome (after billions is spent): social stasis on an epic scale. A true demonstration of absolute incompetence and utter failure.

Of course some people might be proud of that. I know the Tories deplore it. We all lose out if the least among us lose out. The Tories know that you don't solve a problem by throwing money at it - that's for last minute wedding gifts, not running a country.

I have known a few people to move abroad I have lived abroad for most it was about experience

I have known a few to go and the main attraction is money but these people I know are driven by money and are quite frankly greedy to them having a new car every year is important and to live a certain lifestyle not everyone is like this thankfully many left that attitude behind in the early 90's

and the mass excodus of our best financial minds from the city predicted by the Tories and right wing press if tax went up just did not happen though naturally the Tories felt it was only right that there tax be cut for them even though many were compensated for their loss by a wage rise

Actually I am being rather a hypocrite. Someone called Miliband a "myopic tit" on another thread and I thought it was rather good.

So they should pay proportionately more tax! They can afford to!!

Labour didn't wreck the economy, there was a sub-prime mortgage scandal in the US and the world fell into recession.

This is utterly flawed 'research'. One would imagine the fact that emigration has risen in the professions (if in fact it has, we've always had emigration) in the last 20 years is due to globalisation of employers, opportunities, skills - if you work in an international company it's far, far easier to see an opportunity on the other side of the world and go for it. Free labour markets in Europe (and the Tories are all about the EU, aren't they ) must have had a massive effect on this as well. It's easier for European companies to look for talent, and it's easier for talent to move to Europe.

You just can't skew the figures to suit your own agenda, that's not right. Oh wait, you're a Tory...

We've got to the name-calling stage already? Tut, tut. I only know about academic/engineering types, not financial high-flyers, but they tend to move into and out of the UK to take up specific career opportunities rather than to avoid tax. Once settled, factors such as environment and lifestyle often come into play; I'd say that happens here and overseas in equal measures.

Yes they should pay proportionately more tax, it's the tell of a civilised fiscal arrangement. Somebody said the poor paid proportionately more. This is wrong. They don't pay more and they don't pay proportionately more.

Labour screwed the economy by turning out a lost undereducated generation and by encouraging benefits dependancy. Opportunities lost for generations to come.

My dad used to find it funny to sing to the tune of "THe Red Flag" (more commonly known as "Oh Christmas Tree")

"The working class
Can kiss my arse
I've got the Foreman's job at last"

Can't remember the rest, but it got worse.

That's what they used to sing when they had people round campaining when he was growing up. He was very poor working class. And he did exactly what (he says) the workers tended to do... vote labour until they got the "foreman's job" and then change.

Interesting.

We're planning to go to the US, dp is in IT with sort after skills.We're working towards it in the next couple of years,it's not an easy thing to do to be frank.You don't just walk into another country and say hi employ me.The visa situation(particularly in the States is hard).

We want to go because the Tories are hammering the middle income families and rewarding the rich,we love the US and want an adventure.

I'll carry on hating the Tories if you don't mind.

Benefit dependency started in the 80's under thatcher why because it was not necessary to invest in our industries communities were destroyed this is when it started not under labour

Well personally the drivers that made me consider emigrating to the US were much more to do with the stifling management culture in the UK that still recruits disproportionately by class, rather than ability, into our management layers.

We also have passive aggressive and 'hide behind politeness' approach to decision-making (again largely driven by behaviour cues instilled by private schools and the comfortable middle class), and a fear of decision making - 'We must think about' and 'Perhaps we could consider' instead of 'Do this' and 'that idea doesn't work, this one does'.

We also are incredibly deferential as a culture - again a public school characteristic. People are expected not to upset someone posher and wealthier than them by doing the job better than them. US companies have no such weaknesses.

You are also far more likely to get a graduate management job if you studied composing at Bristol and went to private school than you are getting a hard management or business qualification and went to a comprehensive.

Also silly posts like this ignore the fact that economies with mush stronger labour laws, more unionised labour and better distributions of wealth have much better economies, better performance and are less sensitive to people finding out 'secrets' about the more corrupt areas of capitalism.

It is a huge mistake to believe that the US is successful because it has lower tax, and that having lower taxes means that you have more money. Break a leg in the US and get a splinter in your eye in the same year and you will get what I'm on about.

Oh and by the way, miss dull thinking right winger, do you realise that more than half of the immigrants to this country are professionals, and more than half of the emmigrants from the US, canada, italy, germany, australia etc etc are professionals?

My brother and SIL, both darlings of the Tory ideal, emigrated because:

1. Despite working two jobs, and earning over 100k annually, they couldn't buy a roof over their heads
2. Schools nearby leave children illiterate at 11.

They moved to the only EU country with taxation higher than England. They now have a home and children who can read.

'hate' is such a strong and nasty word. It's one part of 'hate crimes'.

While it's understandable to dislike the beliefs and plans of another party when it conflicts with yours, does one really have to hate members of that other party ?

I don't admire the BNP or their views, but I don't hate anyone who is a member just feel their views are completely misguided

As for terms like Cuntservatives - well, thats pretty ridiculous.

This thread should have been in politics

abitwobby - what are you on about - I don't like the Tories but I don't despise professionals or manager - I am one! Are you suggesting all professionals/managers are Tories. - I can assure you they are not.

You have a very polarised view - poor people, benefits claimants (the entitled) = lefties - Professionals, Rich people (the deserving) = Tories - this is not the reality

Usual ad hominem attacks - yawn. Isn't it funny that only the left are allowed to be rude and dismissive, whilst accussing people who don't agree with them as stupid, deceitful, twisted and downright evil. So tedious.

'Do we really want to keep these people who are so greedy, selfish and unpatriotic that they would rather leave the country than pay their fair share of tax?' - idelology paraded as incontravertable fact. There IS a debate about this, you know. It CAN be discussed...

'Benefit dependency started in the 80's under thatcher' - you are right. Funny how she is seen as so uncaringly evil when she shovelled so much money into benefits... in hindsight, she made the most enormous mistake. What she should have done was be utterly ruthless, and start a Singapore-style central fund with the revenues of North Sea oil instead. We would be an entirely different country if she had.

'Who else would the Canadians-Australians-Singaporese let in? They are hardly going to jump up & down to take the least educated, poorest and most anti-social, are they?' - read that again. Then again, then again. Until you get the irony of it.

Labour screwed the economy by turning out a lost undereducated generation and by encouraging benefits dependancy. Opportunities lost for generations to come

Really??

Although I'm not directly employed in education, the rest of my family is.
Under the previous Tory government, the changes to the way that schools were funded left my mother (a deputy head of a primary school) and her headteacher with not enough money to pay for both new books and cleaners. I (as a reluctant teenager) was roped into Saturday sales to make up the short fall. After Labour came into power, the school returned to being properly funded (things were tight but no-one had to make a choice between having a clean environment or having things to write in). Now, under Gove, we have a ridiculous situation where government on the one hand are saying "Teachers are not clever enough and need to pass harder exams" and on the other "but anyone can start an Academy and you don't need a qualification to teach there". While the education system is not perfect, I find it a stretch to see that Tories make a better job of it than Labour.
And if the Tories had been brilliant at it and it was entirely Labour turning out a 'lost undereducated generation' then there wouldn't be any issues with adult illiteracy - as they would all have learnt how to read and write under the previous Tory government.

Spiel....I don't trust a word of this report, more so if I don't get a link so that I can read it.

Baby....RE Fatuous Tory Stats- You can't argue with stupid.

I generally vote Labour. My DH generally votes Conservative. He is a fundamentally decent man who cares about people and about the society our DS is growing up in. He absolutely believes that social mobility is vital for our future. He just happens to believe that my principles are a bit academic unless our GDP grows (giving us a bigger cake to share). He believes the Tories historically have been better at building our economy in a sustainable way.

Goodness me, I am on benefits. I have a Ph.D. Didn't realise it made me one of the least educated.
You really can't go on about ad hominen arguments when you then proceed to use the tu quoque tactics.
Logical fallacies do not a reasoned argument make.