Am I Really the Horrid DIL Here or Does this Stink?

[MollyMurphy]

I am being made to feel the bad guy here but I am interested to know if that would be a general viewpoint.

My in-laws don?t have a residence. 2 years ago they sold their house because they ?snowbird? to Arizona during the winter for 6 months (where they have a trailer in a seniors community), then they visit family in Nova Scotia over the summer and between the two they used to stop by our city for maybe 2-3 weeks in the spring and 3-4 weeks in the fall. They used to never stay with us but would bounce between my husband?s step-sisters homes.

Anyhow, this year my FIL was having surgery and they asked if they could stay with us for 2 weeks while he recovered. No problem. Then they ended up having additional doctor?s appointments and stayed for 3 full months. They then asked if when they visit in the future if they can stay with us. Fine.

However. Now it seems I?ve signed on to much more than I anticipated. I thought this 3 months thing was a one-off, but it would seem that they have made our city now their ?legal address?. In asking about their plans for 2013 it seems they are now staying with us for well over a month in the spring and another 3 months in the summer/fall. They want to consider themselves as ?living? at our address.

I hate this arrangement. There is nothing wrong with them, but it?s a matter of space and privacy. There is no kitchen in the basement so they have to come upstairs all the time, they want to eat meals with us and socialize at will. We are busy, have full time jobs, a toddler and a baby on the way. When I get home I want to enjoy my private time with my family.

My husband loves his parents, adores having them stay with us, would have them live with us forever if it was up to him and cannot see my point of view at all. I asked him to talk to them about their plans and really firm up how long this is going to continue and he basically told them I?m stressed and pregnant and let see how it goes. They noticed some ?tension? from me and advise they will try to stay in the basement more, but that isn?t really the point is it?

I also think they are taking the piss really. We asked them to pay a minimal amount to help cover their groceries - $300 (which you could tell they thought was too steep) but really that barely covers the cost of them staying with us. If they are going to ?live? with us, then I think it should be mentioned that it costs my husband and I $2000/month plus bills (gas, water, electric, cable, internet etc) to live there and so why are they not pitching in quite a bit more? I am starting to see that they essentially freeload for 6 months of the year. I resent them putting me in this position. They know my DH is loyal and giving to a fault and would never say no to them.

I like helping family out as much as the next person but I can see this turning into an issue for years to come.

What would you do?

I think the 'self contained' option may not be a terrible one, providing you're happy with that of course. BUT it would need to be COMPLETELY self contained in that the cannot get into your house from theirs but would have to come to the front door. If that is not an option then I'm afraid you really will need to put your foot down. I would most certainly not be able to live with my PILS.

OP you don't like the arrangement but don't want to force conflict over it, so is there a compromise that you would find acceptable?

For instance, if you could put a kitchen into the basement and a seperate entrance, would that be livable? If they "only" stayed for 6, or 4, or 2 weeks in the spring and 6/4/2 weeks in the fall, would that be livable? If they were paying a quarter of your mortgage (along with the extra in bills) while they were there would that make things livable?

Are there any good points about them living with you? Is your FIL a brilliant gardener? Or your MIL super organized? And would they be willing to enthusiastically put those skills to use for you? Are they great with their GCs? How could you, nicely(!), take advantage of them being there? Could that make things more livable?

It sounds as if your DH is being a bit disengenious with them ("she'll come round") in the hope of avoiding conflict. But they've recognised there is tension. So I think you should grab the bull by the horns, sit them down and (very nicely but firmly) tell them - "I'm sure you've gathered that I'm not keen on the idea of you using this as a seasonal home. Here's why..... Here's what I think could work....." And do it before spring so they have time to arrange alternatives. Are you seeing them for Thanksgiving?

it's hard work having a toddler and new baby, but it'd be 100 times harder with my PIL 'helping'!

I'd have felt seriously uncomfortable not having my home to myself, even the most helpful guests in the world are still creating work.

never mind ones that want to land on you for free!

I'd be seriously annoyed about the 'pregnant and stressed' comment too.

YANBU whatsoever.

i do appreciate what people say on threads like this about how families used to have generations living together etc. I'd imagine it was v helpful if you are comfortable and used to having extended family around you all the time. not if they turn up suddenly and freeload.

"Well, I wouldn't leave my husband over it and really I wouldn't have to....if I put my foot down he will ask them to make other arrangements. I am concerned though that he will be resentful. My DH is a really good person so by comparison I usually am being the unreasonable one. He couldn't spot someone taking advantage of him if they wore a t-shirt announcing it outright....he just thinks the best of people".

Of course these people are taking the piss; they are relying on their son's kindness not to say anything untoward in their eyes to them. Your H's primary loyalty should be to you, not his parents.

Put your foot down and tell your H to properly this time deal with his freeloading parents. Your last sentence re your H is pretty telling; such freeloaders use kindness as a weakness and exploit that for all it is worth.

His parents have and continue to tread over any boundaries you care to set e.g overstaying their initial two weeks visit and extending that to 2 months and using your home as their legal address. Not good for your own family unit. Boundaries here by both of you need to be raised a lot bloody higher than they are currently.

I couldn't be in the same house as my mil for more than a week, let alone 3 months a year. Thankfully though dh is of a similar mind.

Thing is, they don´t need to stay with OP.

They still have two places to live & they don´t need care?

Don't wait til the spring, or they'll say "but we thought it'd be fine and have planned our year", can we talk about it next year? Yanbu at all, and if your DH tries to make out you are then he is out of order. Important to deal with it, they know exactly what they're doing.

Could them making your home their legal address affect your taxes, credit rating etc?

As for help with childcare, looking after two DC is fine, and a lot easier without house-guests! And they may not help out anyway. You would still need childcare to cover your working hours, so the most they could provide would be back-up/babysitting or whatever.

Yy to those who say fuck the brownie points! So to please her man, OP should live with the in-laws and make home improvements? It is not 1952.

Is there maybe more to the PILs' situation, eg financial troubles, that they're not telling you about? A friend of mine had parents who behaved a bit like this, it transpired that her dad had lost their savings etc through business and they were broke, no pensions etc, expected their DC to have them living with them or pay their rent!

DH's "stressed and pregnant" comments and comments suggesting you will find it a struggle woth two DC and therefore need PILs' help are bang out of order and don't accord with your description of your DH, IMO he too knows exactly what he's doing!

How old are your PILs? The thing is, it's not right, but it is the way of the world that the women of the household generally do much of the organising of tasks and do the caretaking.

The reason your SILs didn't worry (nor their husbands, it seems) is that they are the DDs of your PILs. You are the DIL and have a different relationship with them. The DDs know what the PILs are like with bringing up DC, you're not so au fait with that.

I would be worried that I would be stuck with taking care of the PILs as they become older. We had a kind of situation like this when we married. PILs wanted us to live in the same small town as them. They even talked about building us a house in their garden! No, no, no! We didn't, but it was always talked about, nearly every time I visited them. I wouldn't be the caregiver for my own parents, let alone my PILs (have discussed this with my DM; she wouldn't want me to take care of her).

If you think that your DH would resent it, albeit unconsciously, then perhaps explore the separation option mentioned above by others. I would be very resentful that they'd just put your address as theirs without so much as a by your leave. If they've done that, think what other liberties they might take in future.

Perhaps you could sit down with your DH (maybe involving your SILs and BILs, too) and discuss the probabilities/possibilities?

I really do feel for you as you seem to already be pretty upset by this, as I would be. I know you say your DH is lovely. Does that mean that you could really suck having your PILs live in such close proximity to you forever as sort of payoff for that? Only you know. I know I couldn't (my DH is lovely, too).

It would be a deal breaker for me too, I'm afraid. But then my husband would never have put me in this situation in the first place. You say he will deal with it if you put your foot down - SO BLOODY WELL DO IT, AND FAST!!!!!! You have to lay it out to him right now that this is never, ever going to change for you and that he has to tell his parents immediately before they start making really permanent plans. And by immediately I mean today or tomorrow. He needs to know just exactly how serious about this you are.

I agree with Dozer, I think your husband knows what he is doing. You yyourself say he such a wonderful kind man who sees the best in everyone, then in the next sentence you say he will feel resentful if you ask him to take your views into account. So he is not quite the saint you initially portrayed, is he?

He seems to be suggesting to his parents that you will happily agree to the arrangement once you are not pregnant and stressed, therefore giving them the impression that this situation is all ok, and your displeasure at their continued presence is just temporary. That is not fair on them really, they will think all is ok and make plans for the whole year, and by spring it will be too late to put your foot down. I believe this is his strategy. You need to say something now.

Also, what about your family? What if they want to stay- have you got the room for them if your ILs are semi-permanent in your guest accomodation? Could you arrange for your mother to come when the baby is born, so that you have an excuse to chuck them out for a bit??

As above your husband is a 'good man' with YOUR time, energy, money and privacy. As the SAHP most of the time no doubt all the PITA tasks associated with your PIL fall to you and as they get older I wonder who will shoulder the burden and who will get all the praise?

YANBU
I wouldn't like this either. They are definitly taking advantage and it sounds like they know they ate. I would also be conconcerned about what will happen in the future. This could go on for years and years......
How expensive are little studio flats where you live?

I think you need to have a meeting and admit your feelings. Your DH wont do it so you have to. You sound diplomatic and sensible. You can say that you are concerned about it and that you would rather address it now. You can keep the meeting positive, tell them that you like them but are worried that by having them around you will start to resent them. You should also raise the cost issue. $300 is very cheap.

If this won't work then I would make the basement self contained.

You really don't want this to cause a problem between you and your DH, even if he is being useless and has helped cause the problem.

"If this won't work then I would make the basement self contained"

But why do that if OP doesn´t want them there?
OK, I know that it´s also up to the husband-but as said-here´s not there as much as OP.

Wonder what has happened with their own daughters?

OP-do they still have the two trailers at their disposal?

thing is, they will eventually need help, so op will end up looking after 2 little kids and 2 big ones.

No way would I be talking about converting the basement and rent. That says you are happy to have your IL move in with you. But you're not, and I wouldn't be either.

You need to sit them down and have a proper agreement to their living arragmenets (that ISN'T your house!) Get them to take your adress of their legal stuff - that's so out of order - could you be held liable for anything as a result of this?

And agree to have them for a fortnight twice a year. Maximum.

If they love being around you so uch they can buy their own flat, with a bit of luck in the next town.

YOu need to spell it out to DH in no uncertain terms. They are his parents and he needs to do it. Now.

Why don't the PIL get a property with some other Snowbirds to live in when not Snowbirding?
I'm not sure I've grasped the concept of this snowbirding thing. They go on holiday for 6months and then live in peoples houses for the other 6months? With free bed and board? It sounds like a scam and you are unreasonably nice and they are taking advantage of you.
I couldn't live like that, at the mercy of what sound like elderly gap year students.

'what sound like elderly gap year students'.

^ This.

I don't think that DH is quite as whiter than white as you seem to think OP. He seems perfectly happy to brush your concerns away with a dismissive 'pregnant and stressed' comment and is perfectly happy to ride roughshod over your perfectly legitimate concerns.
If he really would 'do anything for anyone' perhaps he should start at home and put his pregnant wife first!

If you convert the basesment, and they contribute to the cost or pay rent, there will then be an expectation that it is 'theirs' and the amount of time they stay there may increase / become a more permanent base. Beware of making any further commitments, they are harder to get out of down the line especially as your PIL get older.

YANBU, it would drive me absolutely potty. A friend has converted part of his garage into a flat that the in laws can stay in. Tney live in different countries so when they come over to visit it is for a couple of weeks. His in laws have their own houses and lives where they live so it is unlikely that they would see it as a permanent base. However, he still finds it hard when they are over for a couple of weeks.

I wouldn't let this happen, but luckily DH wouldn't either. I don't know what will happen when PIL and my parents get older.

I have never posted before but compelled to write as this sounds like a situation my parents found themselves in years ago. My Dad's parents sold up in the UK and then went and stayed on a caravan park in Spain every winter, then they returned to the UK every summer and stayed on our driveway in their caravan. It slowly drove my Mum mad and there was a lot of resentment, eventually my parents separated and I think my Mum would honestly say the situation with PIL's was a big contributing factor. If you are happy to put up with the situation that's fine but if you have any doubts you should thrash these out with your DH now as it will be much harder in 6 months with a new baby and 2 people who consider your home theirs! Good Luck.

Nooo OP! You need to spell it out right away that this is not happening.

If you leave it until spring then either they will just say that they can't change plans/have difficulty finding something else, or events will make it difficult to force them to change. For example, they could buy something for the house that benefits all of you that makes it more difficult for you to say "no". Or your husband will just get more attached to the idea.

You don't have to suck up anything. Just tell your husband this is Not Happening. Better him being resentful now for a while than you dealing with a baby and toddler and ILs and being resentful for months, or perhaps forever.

Be very wary about any basement conversion as a "compromise", unless you do actually really want them permanently living in your basement. If you don't, then things will only go badly when they do move in.

And yy to inviting your Mom/other family so they can't stay.

Straw, I might be making assumptions here, but I'm American originally and, as my parents are in their 70s, they know quite a few 'snowbirders'.

What it involves generally is a retired couple from colder US states, usually in the North or Midwest, who buy a static caravan on a retirees-only/OAP-age only caravan park in a warmer state in a southern or southwestern state. Some parks are licensed for the caravan owners to stay all-year, others not, so the snowbirders leave their residence in the northern state in the Autumn and stay in the caravan until Spring or Summer in their home state.

Thing is, for tax purposes, you have to have a domicile state. This is generally where your principle residence is. And some states charge more tax than others. A few states, very few, have no state income tax. So these people are saying their son's address is their residence.

This can have tax ramifications, though, depending on the state.

I'd show him this thread, OP, because this is not on.

A very unanimous YANBU by the looks of it.

If it were my PILS then DH and I would both move out

I feel as if I am having a strong reaction to this because I so easily could have been in a situation like this. My DH has very few boundaries where his parents are concerned and doesn't appreciate that while I cared about my FiL ( now deceased) and am always unfailingly polite to MiL ( now with Alzheimers- whole diffferent thread) I actually found them quite a strain to be with. I could be lovely for an evening but not as an ongoing thing inside my home, particularly with stresses of work or DC. For me, my home is my refuge for our immediate family. I love having visitors and guests and make them welcome but I need to know when they are leaving so I can pace myself. DH on the other hand would make these drifty vague arrangements which would drive me crazy. My inlaws probably found me very uptight and rigid - but it is just a question of needing space and certainty.

Hold the line OP.

Oh my God you have been very reasonable indeed to put up with what you have put up with already and they are being very unreasonable!! I can't believe that for six months of the year they choose not to have a home but just ponce off other people. That's outrageous! You are not being a horrid DIL. They need their own home. You need to get your husband to speak to them and tell them this is not on.

I would have thought just make life uncomfortable for them. Bare beds when they arrive, don't do any food shopping for them, let the children run amok, don't forward their mail, don't include them in any of your plans unless they ask (happen to overhear). They'll soon want different arrangements.