to think there should be no such thing as a SAHM

[TalkinPeace2]

they might be an ex investment banker
or a part time nurse
or a part time teacher
or an active volunteer in the community
BUT
in these days where most women are educated at least to 18, very few did not work before kids
and very few will not work when their kids are older
so actually should define themselves by their personal achievements - currently undertaking a prolonged break
rather than some sort of domestic - which is what SAHM implies to me.

Oh I might have to arrange to go to a meetup with you sometime word, and corner you to tell you about my job - you might actually listen!!

I love hearing about people but not about their jobs as such because I sort of feel a person's job is more about the face they put on to the world, it doesn't tell you much about them as people.

There are many, many crashingly dull jobs though. Having spend many years deconstructing businesses and interviewing all sorts of people to understand their roles, I don't find that many jobs that riveting.

But that's interesting in itself bonsoir.

I love to know what people actually do in their working lives, as opposed to their title if you see what I mean. I think so many jobs are not at all what others think they are. Hence why so many get into the wrong area for their personalities.

I dunno, I just find it more interesting to hear about and more telling, than the weekly game of Badminton or Zumba class.

I probably found it more interesting before I'd interviewed quite so many finance directors, industrial site managers, sales teams... No, they aren't very interesting jobs.

IMO, jobs that are really interesting are ones where there is serious innovation going on. I find people with innovative approaches to life (beyond work) pretty interesting too.

I also don't think I know anyone who plays badminton or does zumba or bell-ringing!

I feel a bit that way about stately homes, wordfactory. I don't care about the curtains, I want to know how they lived their lives, what time they got up in the morning, where they went to the toilet in winter, what they had for breakfast.

I agree with wordfactory. I think peoples jobs are interesting.
I just find that the more you talk to people, the more interesting they generally are.
Asking questions means you find out more about how the world works. And you never know when that particular conversation is going to come in handy in your own life.

I also am starting to ask about peoples hobbies.
People often have hobbies that you wouldnt have necessarily thought they would have chosen.

I absolutely agree that their policies are oppressive towards working class mothers and single mothers in particular. The changes to the child benefit policy is little more than a veiled attack on single mothers who have the audacity to earn more than the national average.

I'm not naive enough to believe that there are direct links between cuts for one group or that really is all sahm on benefits went back to work they would reinstate money for others.

What I was trying to demonstrate is that there is a clear difference between necessity and choice. IMO the welfare state is there for necessity-to protect those who are incapable of financially supporting themselves. Not for those who choose not to work.

I'm a believer in fair taxation, and I'd pay more to fund a balanced and fully supportative system. However, it is on an emotional level quite tough at the moment. While I don't think political policy should be created on the basis of emotional response, it irks me that I can't afford to stay off longer with my baby when tax revenue I'll be working for is used by those who choose too.

"
Expecting the state to fund their choice is not on at all."

lots of people expect state subsidies for childcare whilst they work

either way the choice is state funded.

But Edgar the difference is child care is a tax rebate not a benefit. Ie they will return some of the money I've earned back to me...

in some cases it is, if you are low waged you will claim more back than you would ever pay in tax.

And as it happens you get nothing until child is three.

Wouldn't it be wonderful if what you saying was true and I was offered excellent and free child care by the state...

'"I pay for childcare,gardener,window cleaner"'

SM If you couldn't afford the above (say you had a min wage job) would you still be so pro working (rather than SAH if you had the choice)? If you had to work and do all the above yourself? Because most WOHMs that I know do not have the above nor can afford it.

A lot of cash in hand people don't pay tax. Same with some self employed. I have a freind who gets out of paying taxes all the time. She claims to work for her husband and so is officially 'working' yet doesn't. It's just on paper. I also see so many workers shirking and being lazy. Not all employees work hard but many SAHP do!

Anyway I would rather stay home and do all the jobs you pay someone for than go to work and pay someone else to do all the other stuff including childcare. Surely you can see that is a good option for some? As has been said many part time workers work under the tax threshold so aren't paying tax/NI. Many claim back more in tax credits if on a very low income.

there is a childcare element to WTC/CTC also before the age of three. all you need is an ofsted registered provider...

if you aren't going to earn much, it costs the state money for you to go to work, and if you choose to stay at home then you get more CTC (though lose WTC)

if you have kids and wish to be a net tax contributor - the only way to do it is to either earn alot -or stay at home and be married to someone that earns alot.

As I'm entitled to nothing apart from child benefit, I guess that would be me then. The net contributor.

I'm not even getting child care tax rebate as its a relative (whom I'm paying) who will be looking after LO. Trade off came in tems of me being unprepared to leave a six month old with a stranger...

Well I'm a mum. And today I am staying at home.

So YABU.

Today I am a SAHM

Many of the women I know have used the SAHM years to break with their earlier career and then gone on to do something completely different. So describing themselves as something they used to work a few years ago and never intend to work in again wouldn't seem to make a whole lot of sense.

After all, I describe myself by the job I do at the moment, not the job I did many years back, or the job I might end up doing if I lose the present one. Hard to contemplate a job that was so embarrassing I couldn't admit to it- and that include SAHM.

The only reason I personally used my old job description during my SAHM years was that I was actually working- unpaid- in my old profession. But according to some posters here, of course, that wasn't real work, my articles can't actually benefit society in any way, because they weren't paid.

Free child care yy. How many times do you hear the phrase "women need child care" I don't thanks, I'm not a child. I am in favour of genuine choice, free childcare is the obv way forward. It would allow middle earning women with careers the option to retain their job and their wage because the money to pay for it would be raised through taxation. It is one way of redistributing wealth from men to women I hear many women saying that they gave up work and their security, lost their foothold on the career ladder because they could not justify losing 2/3rds of their income in childcare payments. Why are women paying for childcare? do they do this alone? What about single mothers.....they don't have the option of their partner taking a hit in his wages to pay for childcare, in fact it isn't taken into consideration for child maintenance payments. So one way of addressing this need for better support for women and children esp single women, freeing women from potentially unhappy/violent/abusive relationships and encouraging all women to work would be to start with levelling the economic ground btw middle class &/or married women and single &/or working class women.

It's a beautiful day here so I am going out for a hike in the hills with my pal. So today I am a GOBSPSAHADSCM
Going
Out
But
Should
Probably
Stay
At
Home
And
Do
Some
Chores
Mum

Why encourage all women (or stay home parent men) to work though if many are very happy at home caring for their DC? Women who need to- then yes. ALL women, no.

If you don't like SAH then don't do it. But trying to take away the choice of SAHP is unfair. For shift working families it often works out better one caring and one working rather than both trying to work and involve a 3rd party for childcare. How many nurseries are open 24 hrs?

But who is trying to take away the choice exactly?

Are there groups of women who beat down the doors of SAHMs and force them into labour? Someone should perhpas call the police...

Hilarious!

Xenia hasn't started terrorising SAHM in real life has she?

www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/lmac/mothers-in-the-labour-market/2011/index.html
Two thirds of mothers work
Many more are reliant on benefits
not many get to stay at home by choice