to think there should be no such thing as a SAHM

[TalkinPeace2]

they might be an ex investment banker
or a part time nurse
or a part time teacher
or an active volunteer in the community
BUT
in these days where most women are educated at least to 18, very few did not work before kids
and very few will not work when their kids are older
so actually should define themselves by their personal achievements - currently undertaking a prolonged break
rather than some sort of domestic - which is what SAHM implies to me.

I don't have a charge out rate, set working hours or any clients and I do not market any skills.

The inane? scotish, people are mostly disadvantaged in life because of the prejudice they are met with, read Rowan's last sentence.

Ahh I understand what you're saying now if it's all about tax for you SM.

I can honestly say when I look back on my childhood and always had my Mum there to come home to and to spend the holidays with in a clean house, how much tax she paid to the Government never entered my head

I don't define a 'job' by whether it's taxable...well not when it comes to raising children and keeping a house clean and maintained.

But I can understand how some people might...again it's horses for courses.

I do an out of home voluntary job and I have done for around 5 years. I don't get paid and I don't get taxed but it's still a job to me and the other workers.

if you don't work for profit you're not self employed.you're undertaking hobby
self employed is usually defined as employment for profit in ones own home,no organizational boss/ hierarchy
employed is key work,employed is for profit activity.charge out rate, profit, sell skill

Scottish Again, I'm agreeing with you. I don't pay NI/tax. I have done, I will again but not currently.

So, personally, you judge a persons worth on how much tax/ni they contribute?

Again, I don't understand your point. Do you have a problem with women choosing to be SAHMs in principle? Is it that it just isn't for you, or do you judge those who choose to be SAHMs?

What if I employ a gardener? Or a gardener and a cleaner? Or a gardener, a cleaner and a window cleaner? Am I a worthwhile person then?

I am genuinely trying to understand what your point is, can you sum it up for me?

Not wishing to repeat myself, but can people please stop using housewife as another term for SAHM, please. The two are not the same, nor are they intrinsically linked. I am a SAHM but not a housewife, just as my MIL is a housewife but not a SAHM. My DH does 50% of all housework and tells me I do more than enough work just being a mother. I devote my time to my son, not the state of the skirting boards!

Yes, I am lucky.

Scottish I've already said that as a SAHM I am not in employment, I am agreeing with you.

I've never heard SAHM being referred to as a hobby before!

Okay, explain the prejudice you think I'm demonstrating by stating that if you are capable of work and you do not have the financial means to fund yourself, you shouldn't be a sahm supported by the state.

And as I said I'm a strong believer in the welfare state and supporting those in need. I'm also a believer in ensuring working single mums have a liveable income through top ups where necessary.

The most boring conversations always start with, 'so what do you do then'

Who bloody cares? Politics, religion and the weather. Much more interesting.

Personally couldn't give a shiny if SAHM, heart surgeon or long distance lorry driver.. Each can be a bloody bore or interesting.

Who defines themselves by their job?? Only boring fuckers..

Rowan I 100% agree.

Parents should only SAH if they can afford to provide for their own kids when doing so.

Expecting the state to fund their choice is not on at all.

Who defines themselves by their job?? Only boring fuckers

And insecure people I think

Of course choice should be earned economically, only available to the worthy middle classes! what tripe. What self satisfying entitled tripe.

Single parents I believe should have the same choices available to them as married women. If we are funding their lifestyle choices it has as much to do with the cost of housing and also the fact that the fathers get away with not paying. Why should my children have the benefit of my time just because DP can afford to keep us. I have no problem with single mother's being permitted or funded to stay at home for the formative years of their child's lives. Many women end up being single when some selfish pig takes leave to sow his oats elsewhere.

I don't mind what I am defined as. Have always been a student of some sort since having DC and also volunteered. But generally on official forms I am 'full time mum'. I think the only people with a problem with SAHP are deep down jealous or feel threatened by their own choices. They may wish all DC were in childcare so they don't have to question if they are wrong. I don't have a problem with WOHM (I was one with DD1 she was fulltime nursery). as I am doing what I want so am content. What others do has no bearing on how I feel.

SAHP are doing the same JOB as childminders and often enabling their partners to work. Many save money. Eg no second car to run and no work costs. Hardly relaxing me time career break!

Well, I'd love to stick around and argue the toss but I have a busy day tomorrow in my hobby as SAHM

I agree with your last post minitheminx

Parents should only SAH if they can afford to provide for their own kids when doing so

That statement sums up exactly why everyone asks the questions "What do you do?" because everyone only values you for the balance between credits and debits......what you earn, what you pay.

Ha. Middle class. No I'm working class Mini. As in I work for a living...

I'm a married woman who doesn't have the luxury not to work. Or rather, having lived through the economic hardships of growing up in a council estate in the 80s when the entire job market was whipped away from around us, I can 't understand any one who is capable of and has work available would choose not to work and live off benefits.

Benefits were a necessity for most of my family and still are for many of them. My single parent mother wanted more security for me, qualified as a teacher and managed to get some financial security. We still always lived in social housing through, she still does, and I'm grateful we had an affordable home.

Of course in an ideal world I would stay at home with my baby (due this week) forever. But economically I'm not in the position to do so.

Because I'm not prepared to take money from those seriously in need to fund that choice. Like my disabled grandparents who have just lost their mobility allowance. Or my cousin who has four children and has been made redundant. Not whn I am capable and skilled enough to work.

I'd love to be a sahm until my unborn is of schools age but no chance! How do ppl afford it unless their oh is on a very good wage?

"I pay for childcare,gardener,window cleaner,cleaner all legit jobs paying tax/ni
by paying tax/ni there is fiscal return to govt. they're incime generating in economy
housewife individually doing all these tasks is individual act,no return via tax/ni"

You write as if unpaid labour were economically and societally pointless.

I agree with thebody - I can't see why anyone is defined by their job. The most boring conversation ever is 'so what do you do?' Who cares?
It doesn't imply domestic to me- as a SAHM you have more time to yourself- there is no more housework than if you were working.

You write as if unpaid labour were economically and societally pointless.

That's because it seems to be exactly what she believes and spouts on every SAHM thread.

I know - she needs to go back to school/university and study economics instead of consistently displaying her ignorance with such ferocity

Rowanhart, glad to hear it I just can't stand any form of prejudice. As MrsDeVere points out, a working class single mother is not taking money away from the elderly/those with disabilities. I feel very strongly that in some ways working class single mothers are not just at the bottom of the heap economically and socially but they are also part of the vanguard that fights male oppression. Working class women have established a resistance to putting up with useless men, having worked out that these men are not capable of standing up for her against their shared middle class oppressors, keeping the wolf from the door and putting coats on their backs.mainstream politics is that of male privilege over everyone else, poorer women are especially vulnerable......just look at the recent news over paedophiles in positions of power, an elite that is untouchable......feeds upon subjugating working class women and their children....through the apparatus of state coercion. Don't fall for the trap of thinking that there is only so much in the pot...the poor can bag it at the food bank.....these policies and cuts are nothing short of a direct attack upon the working classes and esp women and children.

No SM it was a emphatic comment not a barbed put down. But thank you very much for the blatant insult, really appreciated.

I always find it odd that people think what a person does for a living is boring. I think it can be fascinatingly informative. And I'm always intrigued to know what peole actually do all day - the minutae of their lives.

Last week I met someone who designs theatre sets and I just had to know how he went about it. What hours he works. What the pays like .

Surely that is far more interesting and informative than hearing about what someone does as a hobby for an hour a fortnight? Oh bell ringing, you say, do tell...

I dunno..