to think there should be no such thing as a SAHM

[TalkinPeace2]

they might be an ex investment banker
or a part time nurse
or a part time teacher
or an active volunteer in the community
BUT
in these days where most women are educated at least to 18, very few did not work before kids
and very few will not work when their kids are older
so actually should define themselves by their personal achievements - currently undertaking a prolonged break
rather than some sort of domestic - which is what SAHM implies to me.

word I agree, I'm a mum and love it and it for me it does mainly define who I am, but I'm also interested in a bunch of other things and have had other personal or joint achievements I'm proud of!

It takes a good 25-30 years to see if your hard work of raising your kids "paid off", when you can kind if sit back and pat yourself on the shoulder and say, yes, done a good job, they turned out to be ok/fine/great people.
But in the meantime it is a super feeling to be proud of yourself for other things you've done well - whether it's a year's worth of hard work then a well deserved bonus or promotion or a well organized family trip, or weight loss or getting to school on time even though your baby threw up 5 mins before leaving the house. It's fab to feel " yes, I've done that!" even silly things like your stew tasting wonderful and praises all around for what a great cook you are!l

I like to feel good about myself now and be happy now and I sure as hell won't wait for decades to see if I can be proud myself!

I have plans and aspirations and as you say besides having kids I also want this and that..and another thing and another....
I think that's healthy and normal

"Just time spent in the office." Is that what all the husbands of non working women are doing? Meaningless activities. Unimportant stuff that achieves nothing signficant. Dull, worthless, corporate machine serving rubbish. Is that what women say to their husbands? Or is it only rubbish when women do it? Or is it only rubbish if you don't like it any more?

"Time spent in the office" - are we living in a glossy magazine, where people piss about doing not very much in the office, go and buy overpriced lattes (did you know you can save £400 a year...?), then do their "day to night" make up to go out to a wine bar?

Im a sahm,and didnt have a career before doing so,i met my dh and got married relatively young (21) and we got straight down to having babies so ive not gone back to work as we have had so many in such a short time.Im not sure if i will ever go back to work,if i do i will be a midwife,theres nothing else i would want to do.If i had to work for financial reasons i would but i dont and dont see that happening in the future.

I think do what works for you,if you are happy being a sahm then fine,if that not enough for you and you feel the need to mention you used to do whatever then fine,be proud of whatever you do!

Oh yellow you do make me laugh.

I should have known you were an Army Wife .

amazing that's exactly how I feel. My DC are great. And I spend oodles of time with them (sometimes too bloody much!) because I work very flexibly and a lot of the time at home. But for them to be my main achievement? God no.

To be honest I'm not convinced you can even say your DC are an achievement. What does that even mean? That everyhting they do or become is down to you and your efforts? Surely they have their own personality, hopes and dreams? Surely they are autonomous?

I dunno.

For me, having DC was the catalyst to achieve more not less. I suddenly had a great sense that I needed to show them how to grab the world by the short and curlies. That if you want to do somehting, then just do it.

I know DH felt it too. Paricularly in respect of financial comnfort and security. He felt, and still feels a very strong urge to provide for them.

Also I think it's a good idea to separate my achievements from those of my kids'.
I feel sorry for people who live their life through solely through their kids - after all when a baby learns to walk or your teenager passes an exam etc it's their effort, not the parents'!

Yes we help them and are immensely proud of them or equally weep with them when they do not so well or struggle or fail, but that should not be the only source of happiness/sadness. I wouldn't want my emotions to be absolutely dependent on theirs or vice versa...

When DS1 left to go to university I felt a huge sense of achievement that I hadn't murdered him.

I think some on this thread are making up things like pride and achievement with status and recognition.

Having had quite a significant status in my job, the juxtaposition of being employed all day in tasks that most people don't care about unless I don't do them felt awful.
Then I realised that I had to get the fuck over it.

Ultimately, get the fuck over it, has served me well.

word my career as an Army Wife started on a bad note when one of the senior officers told my then fiance that I'd make 'an excellent regimental bear' and it went downhill from there.

autonomous - controlled by others or by outside forces.

You bet kids are not that autonomous.
I reckon about 60% non autonomous, and 40% autonomous.

I have seen enough damaged children to know how vital parental input is.
And leading on from that, how much sway peers can have, especially in early teens.

Yes, children can and do recover to a certain extent through their own autonomy. But it is tough for them.

I don't feel my children are an achievement. I look at them and marvel at how wonderful they are and can't believe how lucky I am that they are my children. Not sure what I ever did to deserve them. I certainly don't think that by doing x, y and z, I created them.

Word I agree with what you say. Of course, on your death bed, with those last few thoughts you will think of the people you loved, but that doesn't meant this is incompatible with doing a really good job (hopefully one you find socially or personally meaningful).

I also find the idea of your children as your achievements, as the product of your investment, and not a lot else rather disturbing. So many times, I have seen children who had loving homes, ever present parents, emotional and material needs met, go off the rails, get with the wrong guy, take drugs, fail to find a goal and just drift, have mental health problems, even commit suicide. You cannot insulate your children from all the challenges that they are going to face, or the fact that they may not turn out as these perfect great job lovely family people at all, but may just turn out to be normal, indeed perhaps troubled human beings. This is not all down to the parents, semetimes, despite everyone's best efforts, it all goes wrong. Equally, if your children turn out to have a conventionally good life, you need to be generous to acknowledge it is not all down to you either.

It's easy to be pleased with the achievements of a 7 year old, and imagine them all down to you and your great parenting. I think this is a dangerous road to tread.

And I don't see why deathbed thougths are any more valid or meaningful that the ones you have when you are alive. They're just the thoughts of that moment.

Define me by who I am not what I do! Talk to me and hopefully you'll find me interesting and can blethers about anything and am basically a good person.

I've had conversations with some folk who, frankly, bore the tits off me because all they talk about is their work.

In my experience people who 'define' themselves by what they do are boring.

"time spent in the office" - I once had a phone conversation with hubby while he was at work and heard strange yelling noises in the background, very unusual! turned out there was a power cut, but nobody could just go home as it was the run up time before a massive presentation, so being frustrated and unable to do any work and stuck they improvised a basket ball game to distract themselves...it was hilarious! when they got the power back they got back to work and most of them ended up staying all night to make up for lost time (DH came home at 3 am, had a nap, went back at 7am).
It was 11 years ago, but since then I tease him occasionally, that all he does is play games all day at the office! he says it's not so much games now, but watching films and eating ice cream. Oh and the business trips are really just an excuse to go to Thrope park for a day... bless him, I wish he could actually just do that sometimes

But some people would say that you are what you do. If you sing opera all day, that's you. You're an opera singer. If you farm barley, that's you too. If you behave with kindness, then that's you. A kind person. And the things we do to earn money are just as much part of us as looking after our children.

word I have the same experience as you - having kids was a catalyst to achieve more. Born out of necessity rather than personal ambition to be honest. I've often said that my main driver is to do things that are interesting and it is most certainly true for me that I could find many interesting things to do that paid little or nothing. But that wouldn't pay for my kids' music lessons. I am able to give my kids the life they want as a result of my non boring, well paid, job.

pag you are funny .

'so actually should define themselves by their personal achievements - currently undertaking a prolonged break'

I was referring to this above from the op. Only this. To me it's denigrating an important role many mothers take on. I see the time I spent at home with my child as much as a personal achievement as my career highs. I am not for a second implying that there is only one way to a fulfilling life. I am saying from my shitty experience of being almost dead due to medical negligence that my priorities at that time were my family, with no room for thoughts of my work. That's natural. Life moved on and work is again a large, fulfilling part of my life but for me it will never be the only thing I define myself by to people asking the 'what do you do?' question.

The op thinks there should be no such thing as the term SAHM. People who post in response that they are happy with it are full of cliches,, despite their personal truths. Folk seem to be unable to hear these and take it as a WOH versus SAH thing. I did both, loved both, live and let live.

Well mordion I would never dismiss housing, clothing and feeding DC as immaterial. I tell DH all the time that I think how well he provides for his DC is valued.

I think it is a fabulous achievement to do that. However you do that. In fact I think it's rather odious to sniff at it as 'just time in the office' and smacks of over entitled middle class BS.

I can tell you I wish my parents worked a little harder at wealth accummulation and could do with a little less on being 'there' for me.

But an opera singer wouldn't sing at you when she talking to you ( or maybe she would :)) she could be a right diva or an interesting conversationalist. That's my point, it's about the person. You can be an asshole or a goodguy no matter what your job is and to me, it's more important to be defined that way.

We aren't making the same point though.

I really don't have an issue with what descriptors people use for themselves, or whether they view their life primarily through the prism of personal achievement, family role, or something else. For many people their most defining characteristics have nothing to do with their job or their family role - I have several friends who if asked to describe themselves in one phrase would refer to their politics, or their religion, or sporting affiliation, or some cultural interest. If people were asked to describe me in one sentence they almost certainly wouldn't say either mother of three or refer to my whizzy city career. They would more likely say 'ginger vegan' or 'ginger dyspraxic vegan'. Or, if they knew me well, they might say 'spurs supporter' or 'Dr Who fan'. Some people in my parish would probably refer to the fact that I do the music in the church.

I do have a problem with some of the justifications that people use to back up their life choices, and the criticisms that they use to denigrate the life choices of others. I have no time for people who describe SAHMs as thick or lazy. I have no time for people who describe those with careers like mine as motivated only by money or as putting money above their family. I have no time for SAHMs who claim that you are not a proper mother unless you stay at home or that their children would be disadvantaged in some fundamental psychological or developmental way by them not staying at home but going out to work.

i,m a sahm mum i find if uou tell people your not in work they looked shocked like being a sahm a bad thing. why can,t you have the option of staying at home and raise your children if im a mum i want to raise my own kids it,s like someone said on here it,s one of those moments in life that a part of your life has changed and thats that really. i do get rather annoyed when my partner goe,s to his sister,s house and alway,s insists about finding out what i,m doing it,s like she,s suggesting i stay at home do nothing and live of my partner[angry}

I raise my own kids, actually.