to think there should be no such thing as a SAHM

[TalkinPeace2]

they might be an ex investment banker
or a part time nurse
or a part time teacher
or an active volunteer in the community
BUT
in these days where most women are educated at least to 18, very few did not work before kids
and very few will not work when their kids are older
so actually should define themselves by their personal achievements - currently undertaking a prolonged break
rather than some sort of domestic - which is what SAHM implies to me.

And you wouldn't really be expected to be praised by some stranger for looking after your children would you? I wouldn't.

Surely there's a semantic issue around this 'hardest job in the world' stuff - are people using it to mean 'being a SAHP' or simply 'being a parent'.
Tony Blair famously used it of himself and he was PM, not a SAHD.

SAHPing can be tough at times (eg 3 under 5, no sleep, dad away working for weeks at a time, no family support) but if anyone genuinely thinks it is harder than every single paid occupation then they probably lack imagination. It can also be utterly dossy and delightful sometimes.

On the other hand when Blair used it he was making a perfectly reasonable point about the challenging nature of parenting as a whole - there are no simple rules to make it work, the consequences if you fuck up can be very serious, you can succeed in the highest job in the country (as he probably thought he was doing at that point....) but still fuck up badly on the parenting front.

Both sides get slagged off anyway, SAHMs and WOHMs. It's because we're women. No point in worrying about who gets slagged off more.

It's not a job anyway. Not sure how it ranks on a difficulty scale.

No. I don't want praise.
And didn't when I worked outside the home.
But as I say, it's not about praise.
It's about respect and there is precious little of that shown to sahps ime.
Do you expect praise for going it to work and contributing financiqlly to society?
It saddens me that the only contributions respected are financial ones.
Because you can only be a full member of society if you earn a wage, right?
I am sure all the disabled people who are unable to work, pensioners and sahps feel as in do...that we contribute plenty to society - we just don't get paid for it.

I only picked up on the question of praise because you used it to compare the different reactions to your previous employment and your role as a full time parent. Personally, I think looking for external validation is part of the problem. Needing to feel you contribute. Maybe you don't. Maybe I don't. Maybe our children will grow up and moan about us. Maybe we make a positive difference to the world every day just be being here.

Anyway, I have to go and do some stuff now. So I will wish you all a good day. Whatever you have got to do, I hope it will be easier and quicker than you thought.

It's a very circular argument.

People will say that it's childish and pathetic to worry about stauts...but then demand more status for SAHPs.
They will say it is childish and pathetic to be concerned about money, and then demand some sort of payment/tax breaks for SAHPs.
They will say looking after DC is the hardest job in the world, then say they have more time than anyone else to be ravishingly interesting and vibrant.

Yes, assuming it's the same people making those arguments....

I'd love to still be able to describe myself as Head of Art Department or professional musician, or singer or art sales exec but I'm not any of those things any more, I'm a SAHM.

I have come here late.

I have never been only a SAHM, but even if I had been I simply could not have used those words. I just couldn't. They conjure up large shapeless bosoms and pie.

And I'm completely happy with that!

Not being bosoms and a pie Hully.

Happy to be SAHM. No shame. I know I've done loads of other things, I don't need to justify what I am now

Thought it was odd you were happy to be bosoms and a pie...

Yes, I don't care about justifying blah de blah, just can't bear that expression.

I have never been only a SAHM, but even if I had been I simply could not have used those words. I just couldn't. They conjure up large shapeless bosoms and pie.

Hully this is why I use Housewife it makes me sound a bit more Gin at 3 and affairs with window cleaners - haha In reality I have 5, children three under 4 and have had my bottle of Gin longer than my first husband!

what about the window cleaner tho?

I would like to be margot from the good life...
Swanning around in a housecoat and turban shouting at tradespeople.
....
Looks at pile of ironing to do, eyes time to pick ds2 up, just remembers it ds1s flu jab after school, dh will be here in a minute in a flap about his work trip so will need to repack his bag numerous times...
....
Maybe one day :)

I am quite happy to be described as a SAHM. I am very well qualified and have had a successful career. I'm currently finishing a second Masters, learning the local language and do freelance work at a significant hourly rate. But the main thing I do at the minute is look after DS, so I'm quite happy for that to be a summary description of what I do. The only reason to not want the phrase used is if you somehow think that caring for your child matters less than all the other stuff, which it doesn't.

Just read the OP's post. I am not working very much due to circumstances, but never intendet to work more than 3 day with small DC at home, neither does DH!

I don't feel like a domestic. I try and raise my small DC as best as I can, talking, teaching them all sorts of stuff, baking, cooking, visiting museums, playgrounds, playgroups ... reading, playing with numbers and letters and watching their language skills and their emerging literacy develop - I rather feel like I am home educating my DC before the age of 5, and I wouldn't change a thing.

If parents doing that isn't value within society then I can't help it and you are not helping either OP, I think its one of the best and most important jobs there is!

Is the term SAHM used in real life? I've never heard anyone use it other than online. Surely you're either employed or unemployed? I can almost see how it can describe a mother at home with young children but surely if you're children are say teenagers and mum does'nt work then she is simply unemployed.

I think so. Just like being on a gap year is being unemployed. And I don't think anyone uses SAHM or WOHM in real life. When I read your post, I realised I'd only ever typed it. Only ever typed it on MN for that matter.

I know a woman who has on DC at university, and one in termly boarding and still describes herself as a SAHM. Wiohtout any sense of irony.

Like the woman in the Ben Elton novel about bankers who describes herself as a 'full time mother and part time charity worker' even though she has a nanny.

It's a no win situation. Everyones situations and needs are different.
if you work or stay at home however you describe yourself, theres only one job your not indispensable from and that's being a mum.

And Madcap perfectly sums up my wider point about sisterhood.

Go polish your mum of the year award and enjoyment in trying to make others feel bad about themselves...

I wouldn't describe myself as unemployed as it implies that i am trying to get a job which I am not.