to think there should be no such thing as a SAHM

[TalkinPeace2]

they might be an ex investment banker
or a part time nurse
or a part time teacher
or an active volunteer in the community
BUT
in these days where most women are educated at least to 18, very few did not work before kids
and very few will not work when their kids are older
so actually should define themselves by their personal achievements - currently undertaking a prolonged break
rather than some sort of domestic - which is what SAHM implies to me.

They also seem to miss the point that if you are at home you have the time to do all sorts of things and are a much more interesting person than the one who goes to work, has to cram everything else into a short evening, go to bed exhausted in order to get up and do it again, with no time to even read a book(unless work related).

It's hardly a 'break' being a sahm.

It's a hell of a lot easier to me to go to a job every day but I am a sahm.
In fact, I describe myself as a 'housewife' (gasp!!)

I am more proud to say I'm a SATM than my previous occupation as a IT Designer. My two DDs have given me a far greater sense of achievement than any system I designed and they were all brilliant.

With every single occupation, once you leave, retire or even die, there is someone else to take your place. Everyone is dispensible. Who could say that about a mum? So if you don't mind, that's how I'll define myself.

That is not to say you can't have both, because you have to or want to. I am lucky in that I got a good redundancy package at the right time in life, and that DH is doing well. We don't have much in the way of supporting family as we have lost both sets of parents, and it makes good sense for us. I'm really enjoying it too.

oh god ardest job in world cliche.no it's not.at all,clintons cards sentimentality
it's tasks in own home,at own rate,in own time,to own standard,unregulated
ardest jobs are external,affect others than immediate domestic domain,meet exacting standards,and are usually regulated

parenting is something we all do,and it's undertaken to varying standards by varying individuals.but this bleary eyed sentimentality of mutha is hardest,most important job in world is sentimental tosh. and to an extent it smacks of women know your place, in domestic domain as housewife where you can do ardest job in the world.

If its so easy then, scottishmummy, why do so many fuck it up?

oh I see valuing career is immature, attainment in work,financial reward sign of insecurity
aye, bet unwaged housewife berated her dp as he returns home salaried.oh you're so immature for not wanting to stay at home,being house husband
face it a lot of you can be housewives exactly because of capitalism paying adequate enough wage to your partner,maintaing your family on one wage.this notion of housewife eschew material goods for the higher pursuit of motherhood is risible.

this mutha, motherhood described as ardest job in world,most fulfilling,to me that really is women know your place. not in the external domain,in the internal domestic domain doing so called women's work. but supposedly told oh it's so fulfilling, pursuit money,status...all so immature and avaricious

if you wish to be a housewife, by all means. but describing it on some spiritual plane of fulfillment and achievement is really over stating things. and when you're kids are at school?well that's not 24-7 undertaking of ardest job in world is it?

so it seems that for some of you career,attainment, financial solvency in female is vulgar or indicative of insecurity, immaturity....but hey you likey it in the partner who keeps the money coming in.funny that

The mistake alot of people make is that they DONT see being a sahm/housewife as a job even when they are doing it. I have lost count of the number of people who say to me that they dont know how i find time to relax in the day or how i get through the day with 5 young children and the real answer is i dont. You wouldnt go in to work then demande to watch tv for an hour or to have time to have hobbies in the middle of the day. Being a sahm is a job especially if you have a number of children and i love it!

I also half own the company my dh runs so i could define myself with that but uh that was only done to ensure had somethign should me dh run off or die! I dont care half as much about that as i do about my children and home.

housewife is set tasks undertaken at home,own pace,own standards,unregulated
no external demands,no deadline,no sanction if task incomplete
housewife isn't job doesn't come close, it's a personal choice individually undertaken

my DH is a SAHD and doesn't mention what he's done. I'm not sure what he actually calls himself though.

both of us have/had jobs rather than careers though. it was important to us to have one of us at home with baby (or baby plus toddler now).

if it'd been financially sensible for me to stay at home, i doubt I'd have been going about saying "I'm at home with the kids but I'm a scientist really!"

different things are important to different people. my brother and sister in law both have careers that are important to them. this involves much juggling of childcare and not seeing a lot of their DD, this just wouldn't be for me at all.

Interesting that some posters think anyone tha works is boring and wihtout time to do anything interesting. Do they tell their husbands they are boring as fuck? Hell do they find their husbands as boring as fuck? Or are men able to work, earn money, do ineresting stuff and be great parents? Is it penis-magic that allows this?

I always say that i am a housewife, i'm so lucky its such a luxuary now. My children have a much more relaxed life that they would had i gone back to work.

I' m not embarrassed to not work, i worked hard for ten years and had a great career.

Each to their own i say.

so valuing career,solvency is
incredibly immature
pathetic
boring
sign that person feels deeply inadequate within themselves
...well thank you dr crane for that searing insight and cliche by numbers appraisal

lol, I do believe someone has considerable anger, and to prefix that ill tempered rant with as a feminist is galling.so you find attitudes to housewives incredibly insulting and ignorant but really then come out with that bad tempered rant calling working mums
incredibly immature
pathetic
boring
sign that person feels deeply inadequate within themselves

I think you need a reality check before you spout off any more

I don't consider myself "stuck" at home. I LOVE being at home with my children, therefore don't see an issue with SAHM, or full time mum, or whatever you want to call it. I do object to "housewife", "homemaker", etc because I didn't leave my career to look after a house, I did it to raise my girls.

YANBU but...

in these days where most women are educated at least to 18, very few did not work before kids
and very few will not work when their kids are older
so actually should define themselves by their personal achievements - currently undertaking a prolonged break

I actually live in a very old fashioned city in Scotland where I know a number of women who left school at 16 with no qualifications, have never worked (nor intend to), got into relationships with well paid men in the main industry here, and don't really fill their time with anything that could be defined as an achievement. None of whom have kids yet. Its very common here. Have never come across it before. As a woman, I actually feel I am looked down upon here in having a professional career, interest in sports, and so on.

Of course this venimous debate would never occur between men. Women really are our own worst enemy.

I'm just about to have my first child and before I was pregnant I really believed I was the equal of my men. But once you are pregnant your rights as an autonomous human being go out the window. People feel they have the right to ask questions about your diet, what you are wearing, your life goals and whether you still value your much strived for career. Equality. Bah!

But what's worse is the fact that now other women now berate my choice to go back to work and try to make me feel less of a woman and less proud of my achievements because nothing I do can be as valuable as defining myself by my domestic role.

You say things like 'I wanted to raise my own children.' So I won't be raising mine? That you are more fulfilled and interesting than when you worked. So I'm unfulfilled and uninteresting in your eyes? What a great additional burden you put on the first time mums around you!

And just to add to the mix, career mums are more likely to have high achieving career daughters. But that doesn't mean much does it? Because what you really hope for your girls is that she does the 'most important job in the world' like you. Look after the home and kids and see both as the thing that validates them as a worthy woman.

I don't get why SAHMs think they are oppressed. Tons of people think they are doing a good thing. I can think of at least two daily newspapers who frequently run stories about the damage done to children by working mothers. The child psychologists are largely on their side. I think the representatives of most major religions would support that decision as best for the children. And all we ever hear in evidence of being hard done by is a few glazed eyes at parties and MN threads. If that's being put down and mistreated, then you are very lucky.

"

You say things like 'I wanted to raise my own children.' So I won't be raising mine? "

'i wanted to raise my own children' is not the same as 'you aren't raising yours'. do not read into a positive statement they apply to their own situation a negative statement about yours.

I always say I am a housewife because I can almost feel people's judgement when I say it... I couldn't give a rats ass what anyone thinks of what I do now, what I did or might do.

I like being at home and I like being the only person that cares for my children. I am very fortunate that we can afford for me to do it so i am proud about it and not apologetic.

Nkf....I have been a sahm - by my choice - for a decade now.
The derision I have met with from working mothers has at times been not only rude but spiteful and aggressive.
Luckily I don't give a flying fuck what anyone else thinks of my decision :)
I hope wohms feel the same and don't let the anti wohm brigade get them down.
As someone said up thread, we women really are our own worst enemies.
Are men talking about/worrying about this shit?
No.

Scottishmummy, you sound very angry and bitter. Maybe you need to ask yourself why that is. Why does it matter to you if people think that staying at home is valuable work? Someone has to do it. It's what works for our family.

I also think that your argument that everybody parents is false. I think Rowanhart also makes this argument as well. If you work full time in a standard 8-5 job you aren't a full time parent. Simple as. My kids sleep 12 hours a day. If they were in nursery or with a childminder 10 hours a day, I would only be parenting 2 hours a day and weekends. You are outsourcing your parenting. It is a simple fact. Perhaps you should consider changing your nickname then as well since you view parenting as something that lacks value and worthiness. Or am I the only one who's noticed the irony in your nickname.

Nkf...the fact that the daily mail thinks I am doing a good thing by being a sahm makes me question my whole life.....:)
There have been countless studies that show a child is better off with a main carer up to age 3. Whether that be a mother, father or grandmother, nanny etc.
But some people don't have that option.

Badvoc, like I said - the psychologists/researchers etc support your choice. And as for the rudeness and aggression, I think there are many jobs (receptionist at A&E comes to mind) where extreme rudeness and aggression are part of the daily grind. And you may have bee unlucky. I was home with children for a long time and nobody said a harsh word to me. Or rolled their eyes. Or looked bored. Of course we can only speak from our own experience but I think the role of full time mother (not ever father) gets a lot of public support and very little private criticism. But, like I said, that's only my experience. And when people write things like "I can feel people's judgement," I think, well, feelings aren't facts.

I used to be a receptionist at a hospital nfk. And I have worked in residential homes with violent residents.
You don't need to tell me about stressful jobs!
However, the difference being that both of those jobs were for the most part respected.
When people asked and I told them what I did for the most part people were supportive and praised my ability to do such jobs.
Ime there is little if any respect for sahps.
In fact Ian Duncan smith - an mp and member of the cabinet - recently said in a newspaper article that sahps "contribute nothing to society"
And I think you will find that is the prevalent view today.

IDS probably only meant financially. And this is the point where parents who don't work cite the contribution they make in raising their wonderful children. And at that point, the parents who do work see red because they raise wonderful children too. And so it goes on...