To wonder why so many honour killings happen in Islamic countries when Islam preaches peace?

[Mooblies]

Also, how could a parent who loves their child consider killing them for honour, or do the people that commit them not really love their children?

[Mooblies]

I found this interesting article

[cantspel]

Mooblies find a news story of a priest acting in any sort of suspect way and post it.

You will then have a thread running to several pages about the wrong doings of perverted priests.

[Jinsei]

X post with Freudian

[FreudiansSlipper]

And what is Islamic culture

Muslims from north africa are every different culturally to Muslims from Pakistan, they follow the same religion and that can bring the together but cultures are very different

[Mooblies]

It's scary to think that in some, if not most cases an education can be all that stands between a parent loving and killing their child

[Mooblies]

FreudiansSlipper - true, although how would you describe aspects of a culture where Islam/Christian is so deeply intertwined, if not Islamic/Christian culture?

[Jinsei]

OP, I don't believe that a lack of education ever stands in the way of someone loving their own child.

[Alisvolatpropiis]

Moobiles saying honour killing is purely an Islamic practice is like saying paedophilia is purely Catholic one.

[Mooblies]

Alisvolatpropiis - I agree. And by the way I didn't say honour killing is purely an Islamic practice.

[Mooblies]

Jinsei - So do you think that someone who commits an honour killing (regardless of religion, culture or level of education) loves their child?

[Jinsei]

No, I don't think they do love their child (at least, not in the sense that I would use the word). But I don't think it's a lack of education to blame. There are plenty of very highly educated men who abuse their wives and/or daughters. And many illiterate peasants who don't.

I just think it's much more complex than to suggest that people commit these crimes because they don't know any better.

[Softlysoftly]

As a Christian married to a Muslim I actually encourage discussion if only to dispel myths!

There are 10-12 recorded incidents of honour related violence in the UK each year (violence not just murders).

There are 2 women killed per week by DV incidences. (just murders violence far far higher).

It's an issue worth discussing but much like "stranger danger" one that is a lot less prevelant than the DM/BNP press would have us believe.

[Softlysoftly]

What I meant to say in the above is, do the 2 per week mean there is an issue with Christian culture? After all we are a christian country?

[pigletmania]

Exactly cantspel I totally agree, it's ok to talk about other groups, Christians, Catholics etc, and a tread title like op in reation to Catholics would be ok but not if is to do with Islam

[Mooblies]

Jinsei - that's a good point, I cited lack of education as someone mentioned it further up the thread. What do you think is to blame or what are the factors?

[FreudiansSlipper]

I said lack of education along with poverty is a big problem in my Muslim countries, not that this leads to parents killing their children but it makes them easy targets for fundamental groups such as the Taliban to influence them, they are vulnerable. Islam is not the problem

[FreudiansSlipper]

many

[Jinsei]

I don't know enough to say what exactly is to blame, but I think it is primarily about an urge that some men have to exert control over the women around them. We see that need manifested in our own culture in many guises - rape, child abuse, domestic violence etc. In some cultures, it also manifests itself as "honour killing". Why some men have that urge and others don't, I don't really understand, but I don't see honour killing as a unique problem as such, more part of a wider issue of violence and abuse towards women in all cultures.

[gordyslovesheep]

oh stop comparing cheese to campfires

'honour' killing and discussing it is examining the actions of individuals and their reasoning - and wondering if it's motivation cultural, personal or religious

The abuse by Catholic nuns and priests is more about debating the intentional and systematic cover up or widescale abuse by it's employees by a large powerful organisation

the two are not the same

[Fakebook]

Fgm, is NOT an Islamic ritual. This is totally unheard of in Muslim countries outside Africa. Instead of being ignorant please try to understand the difference between religion and culture.

[cantspel]

Fakebook WRONG

Where is FGM Practised?
The majority of cases of FGM are carried out in 28 African countries. In some countries, (e.g. Egypt, Ethiopia, Somalia and Sudan), prevalence rates can be as high as 98 per cent. In other countries, such as Nigeria, Kenya, Togo and Senegal, the prevalence rates vary between 20 and 50 per cent. It is more accurate however, to view FGM as being practised by specific ethnic groups, rather than by a whole country, as communities practising FGM straddle national boundaries. FGM takes place in parts of the Middle East, i.e. in Yemen, Oman, Iraqi Kurdistan, amongst some Bedouin women in Israel, and was also practised by the Ethiopian Jews, and it is unclear whether they continue with the practice now that they are settled in Israel. FGM is also practised among Bohra Muslim populations in parts of India and Pakistan, and amongst Muslim populations in Malaysia and Indonesia.
As a result of immigration and refugee movements, FGM is now being practiced by ethnic minority populations in other parts of the world, such as USA, Canada, Europe, Australia and New Zealand. FORWARD estimates that as many as 6,500 girls are at risk of FGM within the UK every year.

www.forwarduk.org.uk/key-issues/fgm

fgm is a world wide problem and not just an islamic one. Dont fool yourself that is is just a small problem within limit to poor african communities.

[Softlysoftly]

Actually I think the fundamental issue is "preaches peace", Islam isn't like Christianity they don't just trot along on a Sunday weddings and christenings get told Jesus is nice and trot off again, it's intrinsic to life, everything is done in consultation to what is "haram" bad and "halal" good. That consultation is through personal reading/research, an imam, the local community, even tv talk shows. That's why it is wildly varying from place to place and person to person. There is no "church of England, or Catholicism or any organised body.

In that way it can become entangled and confused with culture.

Take the burka, the teachings as I understand them say women and men should dress modestly. For DHs mother that means headscarf, for his sister, long sleeves, for his father a cap. They would never wear or force a burka but the bloke down the road might.

They would never kill a child, but the bloke down the road might....

[Fakebook]

For goodness sake. Getting through to you is obviously very hard. You're absolutely right, with your information and fgm being a world wide problem. It's still NOT an Islamic ritual. It's a cultural one. Islam does not promote fgm. It's not written in the scriptures. It's not mentioned in books. It's not something derived from Islamic teaching. Stop associating bad cultural practises with a whole religion.

[thegreylady]

The 'bricking up' was a punishment in medieval times and was inflicted on fornicating nuns not errant daughters. It isn't helpful to compare this 15th/16th century occasional religious atrocity with 21st century so-called honour killings and whatever statistics you apply to other religions ,and anyone can invent numbers if they don't produce evidence, the killings we hear of here are of Muslim girls by Muslim families and this is indisputably wrong. If your child misbehaves and says " but Johnny and Freddy do that" does that make it right? Of course not.

[Softlysoftly]

Who's inventing numbers grey lady? I'm happy to provide sources for mine!

women's aid

numbers of honour killings