To wonder why so many honour killings happen in Islamic countries when Islam preaches peace?

[Mooblies]

Also, how could a parent who loves their child consider killing them for honour, or do the people that commit them not really love their children?

[Fakebook]

Nobody is denying it happens pigletmania, it's just a bit stupid to suggest that it happens only in Islam. If you have a broad range of Muslim friends you would understand that it doesn't happen as frequently as people seem to think. It's just the way it is portrayed in the media.

The video you're talking about is no different to a 2 year old knowing the names of all the dinosaurs after being taught by their parents. Don't see how what harm the girl was doing or what harm her parents were doing.

[CecilyP]

Those individuals with a propensity to violence and control issues commit killings they dub "honour" but are actually lashing out at someone who they can't control.

I assume OP was prompted by the Banaz case, where it was not DV as such, it was not someone lashing out in a fit of uncontrollable temper. The family arranged for 3 cousins to come to their house to kill their daughter, while they went out when the deed was coldbloodedly done.

[pigletmania]

Fakebook the way she was talking to the girl was she was almost shouting. I am sure that if I spoke to my child like that some people would report me to the police. I am not saying all Muslim people are that way, ts the extremists tat do, and who probably drill in religion inthe way shown on the video. Yes there are extremist Christians that do this and I do not agree with it either

[pigletmania]

We should not be afraid of addressing or discussing issues like ths.

[pigletmania]

Christian fundamentalists especially found in us bible belt have a very warped interpretation of the bible, same as these Islamic extremists who twist the Koran for their wn gain

[FreudiansSlipper]

Yes the issue of honour killings does need to be addressed but with recent headlines and the long documented sexual abuse that has gone on within the catholic church would it be right to start a thread asking why do Catholics turn a blind eye or why do the English when their children are being abused we can recognise that it is not do with with being English or being catholic so why can some not see that with Islam

[pigletmania]

Well Freudian yes there have been threads on here about Catholic abuse much in the same way as this.

[pigletmania]

What'd its seen as ok and fair game.

[pigletmania]

So by can't we discuss honour killings in the islamic community, yes it does happen you cannot say that it does not

[FreudiansSlipper]

Really please provide a link

I have seen threads about the abuse being covered up but I have not seen a thread asking why Catholics as a while let the abuse happen

I have not said it does not happen and the problem in this country is mainly connected with some Muslim communities but certainly not all. If I were Muslim I would feel very offended everyday by statements like this that are printed in the media, on social networks. Many Muslims are willing to discuss the problem but as they see it and that is a problem In some communities that happen to be Muslim not because they are Muslim this happens

[Alisvolatpropiis]

Fakebook I don't think this is an inflammatory thread. In the UK the "honour killings" that occur are perpetrated by people who happen to be Muslim. The OP had a genuine question, many of us have said it is more cultural than religious. This isn't a thread bashing people who follow Islam,if anything the majority are being defended.

But surely it is good OP asked? One cannot learn without asking questions.

[pigletmania]

Yes there have been fraud I cannot provide links as I have not got the time to trawl through past threads and I have an I pad so don't know how to link on them. No I am not saying that all Muslims do that of course they don't.

[Fakebook]

A whole community cannot be blamed for abuse and killings. The Catholic Church and all catholics cannot be blamed for what a few of their priests did. Whole muslim communities can't be blamed for honour killings and forced marriages. Ofcourse it should be discussed, and the uk has come a long way protecting victims of forces marriages thanks to discussion and public awareness.

[Jinsei]

There is a huge amount of ignorance about this subject. I agree that this is a cultural issue, not a religious one, but that's not to say that such behaviour is considered normal or acceptable, even in those cultures where it is most prevalent. Quite the contrary, honour killings are deeply frowned upon even within the cultures where they happen most often.

My DH is from a very rural community in a (non-Islamic) culture where "honour killings" are relatively common. Many of the elder members of his family are illiterate, and it is a deeply patriarchal culture in which the movements of women and girls are tightly controlled by their fathers, brothers and husbands. A couple of years ago, my unmarried niece went missing for a few months - the presumption was that she had run away with a boy. This brought great shame on the family and was a source of unimaginable angst for the girl's parents and her extended family. Eventually, she was traced and brought home. She was told in no uncertain terms that she had brought shame and dishonour to the family, but nobody laid a finger on her, and they would not have dreamt of hurting her. At the end of the day, despite their anger, they were relieved to have found her safe and sound, as she was a much loved child and part of the family. I believe that most other families in the community would have reacted in a similar fashion.

People do not kill their children because their religion/culture/society makes them do it. They kill because they are violent, abusive and controlling individuals who lack any moral compass. "Honour" becomes a convenient excuse with which they may justify their crimes to themselves, but for most people in the same communities, such actions are considered to be utterly abhorrent. We should not lose sight of this and fall into the trap of stereotyping whole communities of people as potential killers, as the vast majority no doubt love and cherish their daughters every bit as much as you and I do.

[Fakebook]

Alis, the op's thread title is inflammatory:

To wonder why so many honour killings happen in Islamic countries when Islam preaches peace

To me that title sounds like shit stirring.

Her actual OP:
Also, how could a parent who loves their child consider killing them for honour, or do the people that commit them not really love their children?

can be applied to all murderers who kill their children. How many stories do we read about mothers and fathers killing their children who are not Muslim? Not all of them are mentally unstable. Take baby P as an example.

But you're right. Of course it should be discussed.

[Alisvolatpropiis]

fakebook There are groups dedicated to protecting women (and men) from forced marriages. However it is an issue that seems to largely go undiscussed in the media until something tragic happens. You're right that more support is needed.

Of course one cannot blame an entire community for the actions of a few,but I think that is the message on this thread. Nobody has said that all Muslims are responsible for the actions of every other follower of Islam. That would be at best ill thought out.

At the end if the day,people who follow Islam are just that people. Each and every one is different,as with every other person on the planet. Good people,bad people..."Muslim" is not all they are.

One thing I do admire hugely about Muslim communities is how much of a community they really have. I live in an area which is majority Muslim and they certainly have a sense of community that "Christians" haven't had for a very long time. However this is never mentioned in the media except in a negative way,with articles like "not integrating" etc as headlines. It is so unfair that they are demonised at every turn.

[Alisvolatpropiis]

Fakebook - I do think that the title should have been worded better,because it does sound exactly how you say it does. I chose to think OP was being genuine,but if she wasn't,then even more reason to get on here and explain how it really is!

[Mooblies]

I wasn't sure how to word my title, I didn't want to sound like I was trying to start a bunfight.

I just wanted to start a thread about it and get opinions and hopefully some insight.

I find it incredibly disturbing and quite sad that people on mumsnet are reluctant to discuss the problem of honour killings in case they accidentally say something that makes them sound politically incorrect.

I'll say it again, I am not insinuating that all Muslims are potential 'honour killers' or that it's considered 'ok' to do this within Muslim communities.

[cantspel]

Sorry Mooblies but you must have missed the bit in the mn rule book that tells you that you are not allowed to question anything that could show islam in a bad light.

You can can other people cunts, politicans cunts or people who voted for those politicans cunts. You can call priests child abusers and every member of the catholic church an apologists for coving it up.

But you must never touch on fgm, child marriage, honor killings or any form of abuse going on within any islamic culture as that means you must be a racist or antiislamic.

Maybe you could post a thread about your mil wanting you to come to christmas lunch instead?

[Jinsei]

cantspel, people have made the point that "honour killing" is less of an Islamic issue and more of a cultural one. Nobody has said that this subject cannot be discussed.

[Mooblies]

I might start a thread this evening about why it's taboo to question any negative aspect of Islamic culture, it does seem strange.

[Mooblies]

A bit off thread, but do you think people are more willing to talk about negative aspects of Catholicism?

[cantspel]

But the culture where most practised is an islamic culture.

Yes it does also happen within other religious groups but they also have the same culture as an islamic one.

Mainly being male led where women are under the control of men to be handed from one man ie their father to the control of another man their husband.

Where women are disposable and have no value apart from being chattels of men.

[FreudiansSlipper]

You are not getting it it is not a negative aspect of Islamic culture it is a negative aspect within some cultures and some of those cultures happen to be muslim some are christian too

Can you not see the difference

[Jinsei]

It isn't taboo to discuss negative aspects of Islamic culture, but so-called honour killing is not an aspect of "Islamic culture". As others have already pointed out, it isn't an issue at all in some cultures where Islam is widely practised, whereas it is a significant problem among Muslim and non-Muslim communities in much of south Asia and the middle east.

It's not about avoiding certain topics in order to be pc, it's about using accurate language to discuss the issues.