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AIBU?

To wonder why so many honour killings happen in Islamic countries when Islam preaches peace?

999 replies

Mooblies · 02/11/2012 21:11

Also, how could a parent who loves their child consider killing them for honour, or do the people that commit them not really love their children?

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Mooblies · 03/11/2012 14:03

Why is there a disproportionate amount of abuse of women in many Muslim countries? Yes of course it happens everywhere, I think India holds the number spot worldwide at the moment... It does seem that women in many African and Middle Eastern Muslim countries fare worse than say Buddhist or Christian countries, why is this if nothing to do with religion? It does seem a coincidence.

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lovebunny · 03/11/2012 14:13

who says there is a disproportionate amount of abuse of women in many Muslim countries? where is the evidence? where are the comparative studies on abuse of women in nominally-Christian and Muslim countries?

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GrrrArghZzzz · 03/11/2012 14:19

Discussing "honour killings" within Islamic culture is valid.

However, framing it as an Islamic issue within Islamic countries is ridiculous and ethnocentric. Within many mainly Islamic countries, particularly in Southwest Asia, it is viewed as a mainly Christian issue (as has already been mentioned in this thread). In other areas it is seen as a Hindu issue. Actually, I've only ever seen it phrased as an Islamic issue within British and American media.

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Jinsei · 03/11/2012 14:21

Yes, I'd like to see some stats, as I'm not sure if it's true that muslim women are subjected to greater levels of violencethan women from other faiths. Anyway, OP, if India tops the table, that somewhat undermines your argument, doesn't it? Of course, there is a sizeable Muslim population there but they're still a minority and certainly can't account for all of the abuse against women in India.

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Mooblies · 03/11/2012 14:35
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Mooblies · 03/11/2012 14:43

The World Economic Forum last week distributed its annual Global Gender Gap Report, a review of how 134 countries have succeeded in closing gaps between women and men in four areas ? economic participation and opportunity, educational attainment, political empowerment and health and survival.

While some non-Muslim countries do poorly, the vast majority of the worst-scoring countries are Islamic, most of them Arab states.

Seventeen of the 20 countries at the bottom of the gender gap scale are Islamic ? Lebanon (placed at 116), Qatar (117), Nigeria (118), Algeria (119), Jordan (120), Oman (122), Iran (123), Syria (124), Egypt (125), Turkey (126), Morocco (127), Benin (128), Saudi Arabia (129), Mali (131), Pakistan (132), Chad (133) and Yemen (134).

The three non-Muslim countries in the bottom 20 are Nepal at 115, Ethiopia at 121 and Cote d?Ivoire at 130.

Another 13 Muslim-majority countries appear higher up in the ratings, with the five scoring the highest Kazakhstan (41), Kyrgyzstan (51), Brunei (77), Bangladesh (82) and Indonesia (87).



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Home » News
Statistics Show Women Fare Badly in Muslim Countries, but U.N. Official Says Critics Are ?Stereotyping? Islam
By Patrick Goodenough
October 22, 2010
Subscribe to Patrick Goodenough's posts


burqa woman Palestinian

A Palestinian woman wears a niqab. (AP Photo)

(CNSNews.com) ? The head of the U.N. Population Fund blames stereotyping for the perception that Islamic societies are ?backward? when it comes to the treatment of women, but data released by other international agencies challenge that assertion.

U.N. Population Fund (UNFPA) Executive Director Thoraya Obaid, a Saudi, made the statement in an interview with Inter Press Service (IPS), as the agency she heads released its annual report on the world?s population.

This year?s report focuses on the way women are affected by conflict, and Obaid told IPS that the overthrow of Saddam Hussein left Iraqi women worse off.

(Human rights advocates say the rights enjoyed by Iraqi women under family laws enacted two decades before Saddam seized power in 1979 were set back after the Baathist regime fell, as newly empowered Islamists pressed for marital and family matters to be regulated by shari?a law.)

?Although the [Iraqi] constitution forbids discrimination on the basis of gender, in practice conservative societal standards impeded women?s abilities to exercise their rights,? the State Department said in its most recent annual human rights report.)

Thoraya Ahmed Obaid, UNFPA

Thoraya Ahmed Obaid, executive director of the United Nations Population Fund, leaves a news conference in London following the release of UNFPA?s annual report regarding the state of world population, on Wednesday Nov. 18, 2009. (AP Photo/Lefteris Pitarakis)

Obaid said conditions for Iraqi women had worsened after the U.S.-led invasion.

The interviewer then asked her, ?How does this square with the perception that, left to themselves, Muslim societies are backward, and that the U.S. is the progressive one??

Obaid replied, ?That is a political question in many ways. There are stereotypes of Muslim countries, and Muslim women.?

?This is the stereotyping of a people and also of a religion, and as a result assumptions are based on such perceptions,? Obaid added. ?In many ways it is perceptions that hinder Muslim women in many places.?

Obaid pointed out that she is a Saudi woman ? ?and see where I am right now.?

Ali Alyami, executive director of the Washington-based Center for Democracy and Human Rights in Saudi Arabia, said Friday that Obaid was ?a defender of her oppressors.?

?I know her, and her position is more important to her than speaking the truth to power,? he said.

Obaid?s career achievements stand in stark contrast to the situation faced by millions of women in Saudi Arabia and elsewhere in the Arab and Islamic world, as borne out by two major reports released this month.

The World Economic Forum last week distributed its annual Global Gender Gap Report, a review of how 134 countries have succeeded in closing gaps between women and men in four areas ? economic participation and opportunity, educational attainment, political empowerment and health and survival.

While some non-Muslim countries do poorly, the vast majority of the worst-scoring countries are Islamic, most of them Arab states.

Seventeen of the 20 countries at the bottom of the gender gap scale are Islamic ? Lebanon (placed at 116), Qatar (117), Nigeria (118), Algeria (119), Jordan (120), Oman (122), Iran (123), Syria (124), Egypt (125), Turkey (126), Morocco (127), Benin (128), Saudi Arabia (129), Mali (131), Pakistan (132), Chad (133) and Yemen (134).

The three non-Muslim countries in the bottom 20 are Nepal at 115, Ethiopia at 121 and Cote d?Ivoire at 130.

Another 13 Muslim-majority countries appear higher up in the ratings, with the five scoring the highest Kazakhstan (41), Kyrgyzstan (51), Brunei (77), Bangladesh (82) and Indonesia (87).

School enrolment, literacy, employment, politics

On Wednesday, the U.N. Department of Economic and Social Affairs (DESA) released another major report, also dealing with the status of women around the world in 2010. The numerous indicators explored in the report include the rate of girls of primary school age enrolled in school, compared to that of boys.

The seven countries with the biggest gaps are all Islamic countries ? Chad (a 22 percent difference between boys and girls enrolled), Yemen (20), Pakistan (16), Guinea-Bissau (16), Mali (14), Iraq (13) and Niger (13).

Two Islamic countries do break the pattern significantly ? in Iran the percentage of girls enrolled in primary school is nine percent higher than that of boys; Mauritania also has five percent more girls enrolled than boys.

When it comes to the difference between literacy rates in adult women and men, Islamic countries once again score worst for women.

Of the seven countries with the biggest literacy gaps, five are Islamic ? Yemen (a 36 percent gender gap), Mozambique (30), Guinea-Bissau (29), Niger (28) and Pakistan (27). The non-Islamic two are Central African Republic (28) and Ethiopia (27).

With the net cast wider, of the 28 countries scoring worst for women when it comes to literacy, 20 are Islamic states.

The DESA report also tracks the percentage of women represented in parliaments in 2009. Rwanda scores highest, with 56 percent of its parliamentary seats held by women.

At the other end of the scale, the only countries with no female representatives are all Islamic, and all Arab Gulf states ? Oman, Qatar, Saudi Arabia and Yemen.

Finally, Islamic states fare poorly in a list showing the percentage of women making up the adult labour force.

In 27 countries where women accounted for less than one-third of the total adult labor force, 22 are Islamic states, with the UAE (women comprise 15 percent of the workforce), Saudi Arabia (16) and Qatar (16) scoring worst.

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Mooblies · 03/11/2012 14:44

Oops didn't mean to paste the whole thing, it's very long

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DioneTheDiabolist · 03/11/2012 14:47

I clicked that link Mooblies. It is a colour coded map. According to this the UK women have "medium levels of physical security". Other countries are low or high.

Can you provide actual stats, as medium, low and high tell us little? Also can they be independent and nothing to do with George Bush Sr.

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FlobbadobbaBOO · 03/11/2012 14:56

People of every religion interpret the teachings in all sorts of ways. The Koran preaches peace but if one passage is taken out of context then it takes in a whole new meaning. The Bible is the same.

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Fakebook · 03/11/2012 14:58

That map is about discrepancies in education. Nothing to do with dv or honour killings.

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Mooblies · 03/11/2012 15:00

You can click on the right hand side and it show lots of different maps, not just education

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thegreylady · 03/11/2012 15:23

The statistic I was questioning was the poster who stated that 95% of honour killings were done by Christians.

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Brycie · 03/11/2012 15:31

It is not just an Islamic cultural tradition, it also happens in Hindu families and communities.

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Brycie · 03/11/2012 15:34

I hope no one would defend honour killings with the justification that domestic abuse also exists. There should be no qualification attached to condemning honour killings.

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Abitwobblynow · 03/11/2012 16:03

Lovebunny:

the New Testament is lovey dovey
?Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to turn ??a man against his father, a daughter against her mother a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law? a man?s enemies will be the members of his own household.?
Matthew 10:34-36

Go to the 'But we took you to stately homes!' thread, read it, and then think about what an incredible revolutionary Jesus was.
He said: 'shine the light of truth'; 'and the truth shall set you free' and 'all that shall repent, shall be forgiven'.

Now, let me tell you about dysfunctional families (like the one discussed in this thread) where truly unloving things are done in the name of 'love' and 'parenting' - and the child is forced to suspend their own feelings (I feel sad/humiliated etc); and take on the family mantra ('my family are wonderful, and how they do things is normal').

I would just like to tell you, politely, that the day I took a sword against my family (in their eyes) and turned against them IN THE NAME OF TELLING THE TRUTH, was the beginning of the rest of my life. I could be true to myself and give cruelty and neglect it's proper name, and be reborn as a true human being, just like the hanging guy says.

Have some respect, and don't come over all relativistic here. There is no way on this planet you can equate something Jesus said, with the killing of a child.

God, there are a lot of Useful Idiots in this country. Sheeple.

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MamaMary · 03/11/2012 16:12

I find it incredibly disturbing and quite sad that people on mumsnet are reluctant to discuss the problem of honour killings in case they accidentally say something that makes them sound politically incorrect.

Agree with you, OP. People are far more willing to be critical of Christianity than Islam.

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MamaMary · 03/11/2012 16:15

Interesting statistics OP that expose the misogynistic culture in Islamic countries. Islamic countries are not pleasant places in which to be born female.

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Brycie · 03/11/2012 16:15

But surely it's because a lot of feminists who "take a view" might be more left-wing, and "pro-diversity". Of course this is all shorthand for very complex sensitivities. That leads to some conflict when called on to unreservedly condemn such bigotry against women. It goes back to that old problem: tolerating intolerance.

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DioneTheDiabolist · 03/11/2012 16:29

I haven't found MNetters to shy away from any topic on religious grounds, be it honor killings, circumcision or child abuse.

I have found that some MNetters are really quick to shout about the non existent preferential treatment of religions on this board.Hmm. It has been my experience that such posters have an axe to grind regarding whichever religion is in their sights.

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Mooblies · 03/11/2012 16:44

Maybe I'm wrong? It would be nice if I was.

I have been to Morroco and Malaysia which are Muslim countries, although women don't completely cover up I was certainly stared at and made to feel more threatened as a Westerner, even though I was covered up. I had an Iranian boyfriend while I lived in Japan, he had escaped to Australia in the 90's while his sister was captured and hung.

I know Yemen has the worst record for maternal and infant mortality and Turkey the highest recorded rates of domestic violence.

I also know it is illegal for women to drive in certain Islamic countries.

I also know that women risk being arrested for not covering their faces and/or hair in many Islamic countries.

FGM and honour killings are also predominantly performed in Islamic countries.

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Mooblies · 03/11/2012 16:47

Brycie - tolerating intolerance, you have hit the nail on the head there Thanks

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simplesusan · 03/11/2012 16:48

I think violence against women is a worldwide disgrace.
Possibly most countries/culture/religions promote it in some form or other.

None of it is acceptable.

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MrsDeVere · 03/11/2012 16:54

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Mooblies · 03/11/2012 16:55

I wonder if the fact that women are covered up de-humanises them and demotes their position in society in some way so men feel they are fair game for abuse and discrimination? I live din Thailand and also in Japan for many years and even there women are certainly not given the equality as we have here in the UK

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Mooblies · 03/11/2012 16:58

Someone also once said that Islam is a relatively new religion and all religions have 'phases' of discrimination and abuse as Christianity did in the middle ages, just a thought.

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