to want to drop a foreign friend?

[livingintheeast]

Firstly let me get one thing straight - I am not a rascist and I have a foreign mother (a genuine one not one of those that people sometimes invent just to prove how PC they are). It is a real bugbear of mine that my foreign friend will constantly talk to her lo in their mother tongue. They are both perfectly capable of speaking english - the mother talks to me/my lo in english and the lo talks to me/my lo in english. Personally I find it blooming rude and so irriatating that I'm not sure I want to be around them much at all. Even my lo has resorted to asking me (in her 2.5 year old way) what they are saying - and I don't have a clue! I know my friend wants her lo (also 2.5) to know her mother tongue but surely on a playdate, with english people etc it's just common courtesy to speak in english. AIBU?

My friend's son has it explained 'we're going to see X, so we'll be speaking Y'. He met my German friend yesterday and when she said 'chus' and waved goodbye he repeated it and has been repeating it all day with a wave!

SamSmalaidh ditto

Ah, yes, aunt and uncle were both Spanish.

Yes, I think so, in a social situation. It depends on the age of the child but I think it is desirable to teach that it is rude to exclude other people from your conversation when you are in a very small group.

"If it is one parent speaking the language and no extended family the child's exposure to the home language would be very limited."

That depends on how much the parent talks. I always thought dc's exposure to language from the 75% or so Swedish I put in must be far greater than my nephews' total exposure from their monolingual but rather taciturn parents.

"As I said previously it is also very strange for a small child to hear their parent speaking the wrong language even if they understand that language, I would liken it to if your mother or father spoke with a different accent randomly, you would feel really strange, it would feel unnatural. that is how the child would feel."

That depends on the child. In a bilingual family where everybody speaks more than one language, the children do not grow up feeling there is anything strange about it. This is normal in many parts of the world. OPOL is a western concept which has become very popular through the influence of a few books written by families which tried this (and no other method). There is no scientific evidence that it works better than any other way.

haunted I would say that 99% of people wouldn't bat an eyelid if you never said a word to your child in English. As long as people are included in the conversation and not left feeling excluded when they are in your company, there is no problem.
The 'professionals' you mention are possibly curious? It's a valid question to ask I think.

Mintyy, are you sure you had a positive attitude to the people you spent time with? I have friends who speak to their children and spouses (!) in Persian, Arabic, German, Spanish and Lithuanian and it never bothered me in the slightest. At the same I had the opportunity to see some social services reports, where speaking in foreign language to children was used as an example of bad parenting! Social workers actually 'advised' that parents use only English and reported non-conformance. Is it just ignorance or plain racism?

Ignorance.

Yes I am sure.

It's a very different argument to force or expect integration by ignoring a mother culture. My point was more about wanting an enjoyable cohesive play date.

Kitty, I'm really not interested when my friend says to her husband 'please hand me the pullover' or 'please make more tea' and she would only 'include' if the spouse replied 'dog ate the pullover' or anything remotely amusing.

livinginthepast without wanting to sound horrible,
If you actually learnt Spanish as a child, perhaps your understanding of importance of learning your mother tongue would not be so misplaced.
IMO Second language is a gift in any case, the one's who have a problem hearing mother and a child conversing in foreign language are the one's with a problem.
Mother and child speaking different language should not be made uncomfortable in doing so.
Adult to adult should have a common curtesy and speak English in company of English speaking friends.

I understand the importance of learning the mother tongue; I think knowing more than one language is amazing. I never make her feel uncomfortable but I am entitled to feel uncomfortable myself. As I said a few times, it's prob more about our general incompatibility as friends more than it is about language.

Do you really find it uncomfortable that you don't understand what is being said between a mother and a 2 year old? What do you think you are missing?

Haunted I'm talking mainly about conversation. But even so, something simple as 'please could you pass the wine' said to a husband is easy to repeat so people follow the flow of chat.
Back to the OP and her 2.5 year old. People do talk to small children, it's not all 'don't put that in your mouth'. Even if it were, how difficult would it be to say it in both languages so that company knew what the hell is going on?

I actually went through a phase of translating every single word my brilliant toddler uttered, but I'm not sure my friends appreciated my effort [hgrin]

It's not what I'm missing, people don't just talk to say someTHING. Most conversation is just 'stuff'. Eg they talk about him wanting the red car; I might then say to mum "isn't it typical they want a red car when you've only got the blue one"...that's conversation. It's also impossible if you don't understand. That's all I was trying to say.

Hauntedhouse. The lo talks to me in English!

Sam it's not uncomfortable but it breaks things up for everyone.
When a group of adults and DC are together talking one language people can follow what's going on by hearing all the chit chat within the conversation. Everyone is involved.
When a person goes from one language to another it's a bit 'talking to me' / 'not talking to me'.

OP, then you should have phrased you opening post differently, if you are not compatible as friends the is easily resolvable, you stop being friends.
On the other hand if you continue you friendship with this girl, you could always bridge it better and ask your friend
"What did you just say to your dd?"
I am sure she will be happy to fill you in

I do ask. Constantly. And it is constant. Then mine is talking to me, they are talking to each other and it just ceases to be a fun play date.

haunted I would have!! I would have been interested.
I hate hearing a different language and not understanding. It's like a secret code! Separating those who can understand and those who can't!!

A good friend of mine was raised by English and German parents living in France. The entire family spoke a sort of lingusitic salad, switching languages mid-sentence if a particular word expressed what they wanted to say. They were perfectly capable of separating the three languages when the occasion demanded, but it was quite fascinating to listen to one of their conversations.

And to be honest, I sometimes don't want to interrupt by asking what is being said (imagine having a to explain a conversation one sentence at a time toddler speed) as this toddler language phase is important.

Living, why don't you try to guess what the mother said? That's what my friends do, when they want to know and I really appreciate their interest and willingness to learn a bit of my language. But when we're engrossed in conversation, it's easier to just tell him off and continue rather than switch or 'include'.

Got to go but OP, YANBU!