to want to drop a foreign friend?

[livingintheeast]

Firstly let me get one thing straight - I am not a rascist and I have a foreign mother (a genuine one not one of those that people sometimes invent just to prove how PC they are). It is a real bugbear of mine that my foreign friend will constantly talk to her lo in their mother tongue. They are both perfectly capable of speaking english - the mother talks to me/my lo in english and the lo talks to me/my lo in english. Personally I find it blooming rude and so irriatating that I'm not sure I want to be around them much at all. Even my lo has resorted to asking me (in her 2.5 year old way) what they are saying - and I don't have a clue! I know my friend wants her lo (also 2.5) to know her mother tongue but surely on a playdate, with english people etc it's just common courtesy to speak in english. AIBU?

Kitty - 2.5 might be a good age to teach manners, but it is also an age when children are just learning a language. Isn't language development more important than manners in a toddler? It's perfectly possible for a 4/5/6 year old to learn how to behave in certain circumstances.

I understand the missing talking with family bit because all my cousins are bilingual whereas I am not. My aunt and uncle never did the OPOL bit, to my knowledge, which is why I never guessed bringing up a bilingual kid to be a big issue confused:

Kitty - of course you can teach them manners at 4-5. Especially since, as I explained, the toddler doesn't understand that others around him don't understand his language. By the time they start understanding there are different languages involved (around 3-4) you can teach them about polite conversation at the same time.

YABVVVVU
You don't seem to want to be her friend very much, either. We speak to our DS in English, he is immersed in Spanish at every other opportunity. If someone thinks it's rude because they don't understand English, that's their hard cheese. You can tell if we've told him off/praised him/warned him by tone of voice. We'd hardly say, 'oh, isn't your friend X's mum wearing awful clothes today/your teacher looks like a bag lady/I think your best friend is boring...' etc.
We also don't rabbit on for hours, in English, in front of others; if we're speaking with DS's friends' parents or his friends, we'd all speak Spanish. DS doesn't find this odd at all.

I can't see any personal attacks on here at all, just a lot of people who disagree with you!

You are being unreasonable by the way.

Kitty, believe me, at 6 it will be hard to convince them to use minority language at home and there's absolutely no way they will utter a foreign word in front of their friends. They will see and feel the scowl of the likes of you.

lol lady Mary at point 2; but actually, there are quite a few unnecessary personal insults on here too. Disagreement is fine, insulting someone isn't really.

Sam I agree that it is the most perfect age to learn language and so, as I said in an earlier post, if the mother is set on talking to their DC in her language it is her job to ensure that all parties are included ( by translating for others in their company).
The child will learn from a very early age that this is what you do in social situations. They may not do it themselves until they are older but these good manners will be instilled in them.
My Italian friend has always done this. The conversation between her and her sister is in Italian followed by a translation for me.
If a child doesn't hear their mother doing this in company, how will they suddenly learn to do it themselves?
Very amiss of the OP's friend I think.

haunted who says I scowl? presumptuous much.

Honestly, I've read through and I can't see any. I'd report them if I did. Someone telling you that your thoughts and views are odd isn't a personal attack. Someone telling you that you're a twonk is. (just an example) If you feel as though posts are personally attacking you, you should report the post.

Kitty - again, as some before you, you are getting confused between foreign language conversation between adults and an adult and a toddler. Completely different situations

I think, on balance, yanbu, op. I have experience of spending time with bilingual children and a parent who only speaks to them in the non-English language and I find it uncomfortable and dissatisfactory.

Kitty - when a child is a little older you explain to them "we are seeing a friend who only speaks English, so we will all talk in English when we are there, ok?".

Ok, the scowl of a many people. I had to explain to at least five nursery teachers why I don't speak English to my son. Surely teachers should know something about bilingual children?

YABU to post in AIBU and not expect people to disagree with you! Seriously. Ask MNHQ to move this to the fluffy section chat if you're being bothered by what posters are saying. There is a disclaimer at the top!

Note: Please bear in mind that whilst this topic does canvass opinions, it is not a fight club. You may disagree with other posters but we do ask you please to stick to our Talk Guidelines and to be civil. We don't allow personal attacks or troll-hunting. Do please report any. Thanks, MNHQ.

I really can't see any personal attacks.

yabvu,
Do you speak Spanish op? Agree with riksti

riksti I am not at all confused. I have talked about both and how a child learns from example even if they are too young to put it into practice themselves.

ignoramus? Slightly stronger than twonk ;)

Sam that isn't entirely necessary. As long as all parties are included ( possibly through translation) it's perfectly fine to talk in different languages.

I don't think you're being unreasonable. In my upbringing my parents have always taught me if there are 3 people or more present it is rude for one to whisper in the 2nd ones ear. Why? the third person will feel ignored and marginalised, and may feel they are the topic of conversation. I would use the same analogy here. You know these people, its not like they are strangers in a public setting, it's your friend and her child, by speaking in a foreign language they are marginalising you, it's really inconsiderate.

As for people saying the mother is trying to raise her child bilingually. Well a short period of time with friends all engaging in English, will not have a detrimental effect on the bilingual skills of her child, that's a nonsensical argument.

Btw I was raised speaking 2 languages so I speak from experience.

OP, did your aunt and uncle have the same native language? If so, they didn't 'need' to do OPOL because your cousins would have double the exposure at home. They probably did one language at home the other language when out of home.

But in any case as cory said, OPOL is by no means the only way, but it is one that works for many people when only one parent speaks the minority language.

But the child can see me speak English to the people who don't understand my first language - surely that's the example I'm setting exactly as you're describing.

No unfortunately I don't. As I said a few posts back, my aunt and uncle and their kids do, but I don't. I think as my mum was a single parent she was probably overly concerned that I be "English".

Kitty - it's rather unnecessary to constantly translate with an older child who can speak both languages... and pointless to translate a 2 year old's musings on what colour bowl they want.

Minty Why do you find it uncomfortable?
Most natural thing in the world is for a child to be able to converse with it's mother in mother tongue,
Should they stop and switch to English so not to make you feel uncomfortable?