AIBU (or juat old fashioned) to think it strange that parents allow this?

[cinnamonnut]

Had dinner in a nice hotel and a couple with two sons sat near us. Through most of the evening, dinner and all, one of the boys had those clunky beats by dr dre headphones glued to his ears. He was old enough to be able to concentrate at a nice dinner for a little while.

AIBU to think it's a shame that people seem to ignore the world and what's going on around them - and to also find it rude? I'm under 21, not sure if I'm being overly old fashioned...

Each to their own I say, don't judge. Personally it's a no no for my 4 but they wouldn't want to anyway. Others have different needs/ wants as discussed

Quite frankly, the first thing I thought of was special needs, and I feel even more certain of myself now the OP's described the headphones!

Teenagers who can't put down an iPod for more than eight minutes probably wouldn't be seen dead with clunky external-noise-muffling-type ones!

OP, by the way, did you come over to my restaurant table about six years ago, to tell off my grown adult companion for playing with a portable entertainment device? I never minded my companion's behaviour (as I know why he does it), but I did think that woman was rude.

cinnamonnut: You say that we could explain almost anything on mumsnet by saying "What if he/she has SN" without apparently realising the implications of that. Don't you see, the point is that you shouldn't rush to judgment about other people precisely because whatever it is that you disapprove of may well be due to disability or learning difficulties, or there may be other good reasons for it. Therefore we should all think of that possibility before condemning other people, and that way we won't have to have it pointed out to us.

And anyway, if this kid's behaviour wasn't hurting anyone else, I can't really see that it's anyone else's business.

bialystockandbloom

Perhaps the child does have SN and so the headphones are necessary to get him to cope with the outing. Perhaps the child doesn't have SN and his parents allow him to sit in a restaurant eating dinner with his headphones on. That's something we will never know.

However, I am intrigued that you can say The fact that it obviously didn't even occur to the OP that this child quite bloody obviously had SN without having been there, or seeing the child yourself, and feel that this is a perfectly fair assumption to make and thus it is perfectly fair to have a go at the OP - when it apparently isn't perfectly fair for the OP to have made her own assumptions after seeing the child.

You stating he obviously has SN is exactly the same as the OP stating that she found it rude

OP, if the child didn't have SN or a similar reason to wear the headphone in public, then YANBU.

I have already said that IABU to comment on this specific case (btw, TheBigJessie, boys love those big beats headphones now) so there's no need to keep repeating that, and in general I just think it's a shame that NT people shut themselves away now. The parents were happily playing on their phones too.

Fashions may be different, then. I know a school that specifically has that kind of headset in their language lab, because they don't get stolen!

TheBigJessie seriously, beats by dr dre? They are so popular here. Teenage boys especially love them. Footballers wear them. All different colours and everything - so expensive too.

There is a difference between live-and-let-live and showing disrespect to others.

My own example, I had evening dinner in a very posh hotel restaurant recently. A man sat at the next table with his laptop tap-tapping away like a moron. On the other side a family came in dressed like they were going to the gym. The teenage girl had bare legs, a long t-shirt, and no skirt that I could see of or shorts on up to her ass. I do notice what is going on around me obviously, as I am a human being!

If people are uninterested in or take no notice of or are disrespectful to other people around them why not just have dinner in their room or sit on the sofa with their pyjamas/headphones/mobiles/dirty pants/whatever on.

So, I agree OP, no sense of occasion or protocol!

I would be thankful to have a family that if their children, for whatever reason, created noise/got upset/was a flouncy irritating teenager etc, to give them a distraction.

I find it more irritating to have parents ignoring a child who is screaming or chucking food or whatever.

Also, maybe the parents just wanted a nice meal, and let them have a treat that also kept them from making noise I know I crave that as opposed to my 6 year old endlessly asking questions

No, they're not branded. They're just big and clunky. Any fashion centred around big and clunky hasn't reached us. Cool kids have in-ear ones.

It is not the norm around here, indeed it is so far from the norm that if I saw it I would assume the parents were allowing it for good reasons of their own which I knew nothing about.

Just as I used to hope that people who saw me carrying my 5yo on my back would shrug and think "oh well, maybe there is a reason" rather than start huffing about modern parenting. And as my parents used to hope that people who saw them restraining but not chastising their ds when he had a meltdown would think "maybe there is a reason" (didn't always work out, that one; I remember being pursued down the street in Italy by old crones all yelling "beat him, beat him").

I can think of several valid reasons for parents allowing headphones under particular circumstances and SN is only one of them.

nellybluth yes you have a point - I did make rather an assumption (in my defence it was late and I posted in haste - should have said "almost certainly did" or "it seems likely".

Of course I have no way of actually knowing if he had asd or other sn - but it does seem much more likely. It is not the same as the sweeping judgement of the OP though.

what has driven this thread into being worthy of creating for discussion...really?

what is the purpose of this?...just a moan and a pants hoiking exercise or is it a genuinely interested OP wanting to discuss the impact of technology on people and how behaviours are changing?
If it's hoiking...I'd ignore it...yabu ...boring.......4 pages though...wow!!!!...though I would like to assume that the majority were making very valid, sensible additions but I didn't read it all

In 10yrs time or maybe sooner...it will be weird to see anyone without technology in their hand or ear or whatever....I'm waiting for a pair of those special glasses with a virtual view of any choice in 3d and sitting there in my bed or at my kitchen table taking a trip around some far off land whilst I sip my coffee and ignore entirely what is going on around my immediate vicinity whilst I wait for the dinner to cook hahahahaha...and I'm in my late 40's...what awful sort of person am I !!!...I might pack them in my bag and sit in the shopping mall coffee house or on the bus too...anywhere really. and I might see lots of people doing the same, restaurants with kids, etc...sky really is the limit.....why not...really?...if we can, we can...maybe we will be universal, holistic, embracing and accepting of others from our exposure to so many things...isn't it ignorance that drove some of the major issues humankind has had with one another? colour, disability..you name it there are people/area's/ countries with issue's because of it....maybe through exposure from the technology and education of our ignorance...we could be better off for it...having more than cutlery in your hand at the dinner table probably just pales into insignificance when you are thinking globally...no?

taking the OP at its most general, face value about whether or not, when sitting down to dinner people should interact with those they are with, then no, YANBU. At a restaurant recently, family of four, two teenage sons and both parents all glued to separate phones / ipads etc the whole time. Barely a word was exchanged and that is sad. I realise this thread has exploded into the usual MN tirades about appreciating special needs issues and whilst that is a perfectly valid thing to point out, I think MNHQ is going to soon have to issue guidance as to how to word an OP so that the actual point being raised is addressed and not always descend into the SN issue. Perhaps the OP box could have a pre-written first sentence along the lines of "Assuming no-one involved had SN, AIBU to think...." just to save us all some time? I do not wish to be at all dismissive of those with SN and the challenges they face but it is not always relevant to every discussion. And now I will duck and cover!

I think guidance would be a good idea trixie123 because I have seen quite a few threads descend into shit storms.

I certainly did not intend to judge a boy with SN (if he had SN). My 'judgement' was based on the assumption that he and his parents were NT (as they were playing on their phones too.)

Apologies if I have offended anyone.

Don't apologise OP, I think you have been pleasant and civilised, just asking a genuine question.

I agree the OP obviously didn't set out to cause any offence. It is the fact that the idea that the boy may have had SN didn't even occur to her yet she felt it necessary to come back to MN to post on AIBU about the incident that is galling.

And then the subsequent language eg

I realise this thread has exploded into the usual MN tirades about appreciating special needs issues

descend into the SN issue

sigh another MN SN issue

Descend into the SN issue ??? Sorry if the world of special needs is such an affront to the world of normal people.

I realise for most people, not dealing with a child with sn day to day, things like this aren't at the forefront of their minds. But does it really take that much effort to pause and think for just a single minute that there might be a good reason for the headphones?

But what's worse is the fact that when parents of dc with sn come on and point this out (in a perfectly reasonable, polite way) there is a collective sigh about the bloody special needs brigade bringing things down agaaaiin by bringing up their issues.

Don't know where to start with the emoticons: ? Probably all three.

of course there are lots of people and families who just sit down and eat...the fact they may all be sitting together doesn't dictate that they should be interacting during the process though!

I know quite a few people like this...and if they go out to eat then this is exactly what they go and do....order, have a drink and eat the food and then return home...there is often not much else that is happening with them...they are fulfilling a basic need and this is how they often do it....
It may sound strange but it is like this for some people and they are perfectly happy with it too!!..have you never noticed how some people can sit in a restaurant and not actually see them talking? I've seen this many, many times with people

personally, I enjoy going for a nice meal...my DS is sensory sensitive though so it poses difficulties for him....we hope to get a quiet place and table area, he sits furthest from me so he isn't having to be too close to my choices of food, he often has lego and soldiers in his pocket to fiddle with, he blocks the view with the menu, uses his DS and games, plays with my mobile and then just tries to focus on his own food (which I always pray he will find appealing and acceptable to actually eat any of)....it's trial for him, it can end in disaster easily, it's actually been approx 8mths since we went out for a meal of any kind because his issues are extreme atm.
I'm usually too focused on my own table to really pick up too much about folks around me...I'm much less concerned about it and probably pay more attention to the staff, cleanliness, service and surroundings I'm in...

bialy If you read what I said at the end of my post you'll see that I specifically said I am entirely sympathetic to those with special needs and that it was perfectly justifiable for it to be pointed out, but that isn't what the OP was about. The "descend" into a "tirade" was addressed to the tone of some of the posts, not to suggest that it's tedious and boring to consider it, just that it does sometimes overtake the actual issue of the OP.

my son has ASD, and its thanks to MN i feel alot more confident taking him out in public places.

More and more people are begining to accept hidden disabilities which is refreshing to see.

FGS!! WHY is SN brought into everything?!
Do I assume that the 20 something wearing headphones who crossed over the road in front of my car without looking has SN? Or is he just a thoughtless idiot?
Has every loud, obnoxious, rude child in public got SN? No, they haven't and it insults children with SN to presume so.

OP. This lad was most likely a spoilt brat with no manners. Just like the majority of DC who take their DS out for a meal and ignore the company they are in. Just like a friend of mine who spends all night flicking through her phone when we go out.

Because, if I ever have a child that was diagnosed as having SN I would really hope that the number of ignorant strangers who would assume their behaviour was down to them just being a 'spoiled brat' may one day read a thread like this and be enlightened.

KittyFane wow. did you MEAN to be that rude? Seems to me that you are sadly lacking manners as well.

As well as KF's rant, I think this is quite out of order:

Mainly because it smacks of silencing those who make any comments relating in a positive way to SNs. People bash behaviour that can easily be attributed to SNs on a daily basis on MN. If we do not challenge this viewpoint by pointing out that it might be behaviour that is due to SNs, then how in God's name will anyone realise it? Or are those with SNS (or those who care for them) supposed to remain silent and not be allowed to speak?

Rather than MNHQ having to "issue guidance," perhaps it might benefit some to actually educate themselves and take on board what some people are saying about SNs. Do you honestly think it would be acceptable for MNHQ to issue guidance on "how to word an OP so that the actual point being raised in addressed and not always descend" into a racial issue? a religious issue?

For heaven's sake, just think before you post. Is it REALLY that difficult??

So, every person you encounter who is loud, ignorant, rude, aggressive, shows no manners is likely to have SN?
How insulting to people with SN presume that these traits all belong to them.

Well, if we went by that guidance, KF, that would place you squarely on the spectrum, wouldn't it?