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To complain (and share with MN) about Zenith Windows rude, sexist and crap service?

213 replies

PumpkinJack · 25/10/2012 19:48

Zenith windows door to door salesperson knocked on our door about 4 weeks ago. Like a fool I said we were considering new windows and would like a quote. He pressured me to have one that day or at the weekend but I insisted on the following week. An appointment was made, he wrote it down, I diarised it etc.

The day arrives, Zenith phone me about 2 hours prior to the appointment to confirm they'd see DH and me later. I mentioned it would just be me. They cancelled!! On that basis! Said they'd ring to rearrange a time to see DH too, despite me saying we only want a quote.

Equally incredibly I then heard nothing more. Tonight someone from their company phoned to say I was down as a 'missed 'appointment' and would I like to re-book. Wtaf? I briefly (not like this) said no, not interested as the service had been... Brrrrrrrrr

She hung up! Shall I complain? What for, a written apology? Or save my energy? Fuckers.

OP posts:
GiddyOnZackHunt · 03/06/2016 18:12

I know Pirate. Somebody let me buy a bottle of gin by myself the other week. I haven't a clue how it was made. No person to tell me about herbs and stills :(

wherethewildthingis · 03/06/2016 18:16

Ooh I've a couple of these, not double glazing!! Picked my son up from nursery, wearing my work suit, told him we are off to get some new shoes. Nursery worker pipes up "ooh spending Daddy's money are we?"....

Or the estate agent who, when i said i was looking to market my house, asked if i was married, then my husband's first name. Never asked my name and addressed all correspondence to "Mrs DH initial surname".

Cannot understand this outdated 1950s rubbish!!

GloGirl · 03/06/2016 18:20

Vascillious, what an absolute load of horseshit.

I've spent £400000 on a house. At my first time of viewing it I did not need to spend 4 hours to go over every minute detail.

I've spent thousands on renovations - putting in a central heating system, complete rewire. Brand new kitchen including a new window

At no point did anyone feel the need to sit me down and say "So, you want to spend £15000 on a new kitchen, here is every fucking thing you might possibly need to know" and try and bamboozle me or pressure sell.

It's a WINDOW. Ive had much less informaion about jow my boiler wojld wotk and lets be fair what i really want from a window is fke it to open and close.

It's is absolutely not necessary to spend any longer than 30 mins max after measuring to explain energy ratings or brief touch on warranty. Pamphlets are useful if written properly.

I've bought cars that could drive me around at 120mph. No one needs to go through every minute detail of safety features before I buy it.

This is not the forum for you. We are not mugs here.

Vascillious · 03/06/2016 18:21

Well said it all but it misses the point and misrepresents what I wrote:

I'm confident I have made it obvious enough that you Don't learn all you might know in the space of a single sale. Just as you Don't learn everything there is to know about a car before you buy a car.

That's precisely what I'm saying: You don't know all there is to know.

I'm not stating you Should know All there is to know but I do suggest not knowing enough is exactly why people make poor purchasing decisions.

They often find out far too late too. Such as making a claim on their house insurance following a break in, only to discover the burglar broke in through a window using a means which triggers an insurance exemption and the insurance company then cheerfully inform you they won't pay.

All because the consumer hasn't truly considered the ramifications or even suspected their windows are basically illegal by today's standards.

GloGirl · 03/06/2016 18:23

Yes the solution is to harass people in their own home and mind dump too much information on them. I can't see a better solution even if I think really hard.

IT'S A WINDOW

PirateSmile · 03/06/2016 18:27

The reason for double glazing salespeople having to explain anything to their customers is because the system has been designed to rip people off for years and so it is now heavily regulated. I still believe it doesn't take 4 hours to sell me anything.

NotYoda · 03/06/2016 18:31

And to harrass the people (elderly, generally) who have the least access to impartial information and online research and are most susceptible to fear based reasoning and social pressure (not wishing ot offend).

Those people are much more likely to make poor purchasing decisions based on being FLEECED.

Vascillious · 03/06/2016 18:33

Most of this are accusations it isn't worth the trouble responding to.

Salesmen used to use dirty tactics and some still do.

However the industry is now heavily regulated so the "high pressure" sales tactics you keep referring to, besides being ineffective because people are less likely to buy from a pushy sales agent they don't like than a professional, they are also now illegal.

These accusations are based on a popular stereotype. Satisfaction surveys completed by people who have had glazing installed are today extremely high.

PirateSmile · 03/06/2016 18:38

I linked to this earlier in the thread but it's worth repeating.
www.gov.uk/cma-cases/weatherseal-home-improvements-ltd-misleading-practices-in-the-sale-of-double-glazing-and-energy-efficiency-products
Questions have been asked in Parliament about double glazing companies but the OFT and Trading Standards seem powerless to do anything really positive.

GiddyOnZackHunt · 03/06/2016 18:45

Oh we've understood your 'point' but we think you're wrong. It doesn't need a 4 hour pressure session to communicate this stuff. It just doesn't. Nothing you have said would take up more than 15 minutes.

GahBuggerit · 03/06/2016 18:51

oh jog on with all that shite Vascillious. why cant the pricks quote and leave paperwork with all the info on?

oh i know why Hmm

last year i had to step in and get rather antsy with a sales person who was harassing my mum and dad. sorry did i say antsy? i meant physically push thd buffoon out of their house. he was spouting all of that bollocks too. if it was you i apologise for accidentally pushing you too much, i didnt mean for you to trip up

Flisspaps · 03/06/2016 19:07

I feel very disgruntled.

My local window firm have measured up a new double glazed door, left me with a handy brochure with all of the info about the security details etc of said door and left within minutes. No mention of where my husband was or did he approve.

A couple of hours later I got a VERY reasonable quote through by email, no pressure to buy. I rang a week later to book, arranged a second visit to confirm measurements and handle style (10 minutes again) and arranged fitting for the following week.

Where's my hard sell and four hour spiel about FENSA, ISO9001 and upselling? What if I don't understand how to operate my door, surely it can't be as simple as using the lock/handle?

GiddyOnZackHunt · 03/06/2016 19:20

Good grief Fliss that's bordering upon negligence according to supercilious up there! I expect you'll be burgularised by the bank using a direct debit slip to jemmy it open to let the entire Norwich Union in for a rifle through your jewellery box.

Vascillious · 03/06/2016 19:25

Ok, I don't have time to sit here and laboriously respond to every random accusation you might want to make, so I'll have to just choose some. Part of this is your prerogative: If you want to hold on to a derogatory view of the sales profession, and it's important to you or gives you a false sense of moral superiority you're unwilling to let go of, I can't make you. It's a challenge I don't accept. So, if you're determined to sustain that attitude, great, you can go to lunch on it.

Just to clarify some points:

I haven't implied you must spend more than four hours doing anything. What I in fact wrote was:

"In a single sitting, lasting not longer than four hours, no one person can learn the answers to all there is to know about the purchase".

And that's a stright cut and paste so I'm happy to stand by it.

It's a fact.

However, I can't control your desire to misrepresent what I'm writing, you can do that all you like and we'll be here until the sun goes cold if you continue to do it. It would help if you just took what I wrote literally.

The statement means only what it actaully says: You could not know all there is to know about the purchse not even if you took four hours over it.

That's all it means. There is no firther implication.

It does NOT mean you SHOULD spend more than four hours. I didn't write that and it isn't what I meant. I only meant what I wrote.

Look at it this way:

If you take your car to a mechanic to have a cracked cylinder head replaced, you might spend a few minutes chatting about cylinder heads, head gaskets, piston crash, and all that.

But there are a thousand things that Might go wrong with your car. You can't talk about everything that you Might need done at some time or another, not even with a few hours to spare.

The mechanic cannot possibly confer all of his knowledge to you in four hours. He may then replace the cylinder head.

Now, maybe your partner has this done and you happen to know something about cars.

You might know something about cylinder heads and your knowledge may be way above average so you're able to tell something about the different types, strenths, efficiencies, and also something about how to fit them, logevity and the first thing you say to your partner is "What have you done? I wouldn't have let him fit one of those. It's under guarantee, I'll take it back and have him redo it".

This is why workers like to have both partners there so they know both partners are happy and know what they're doing.

It isn't always enough to hear it from their partner. Their partner isn't a motor mechanic, that's why they asked a professional.

Now, you don't need to spend four hours talking about anything and once again, I never wrote that you should.

When you get the oil changed though, you should know that you must get the rigth type for your engine or it won't even start.

You know that fuel isn't just fuel, they have an octane rating.

You might always buy standard unleaded, the travelling salesman might always put high octane fuel in his car, you aren't all clones who all want the same things.

Most people who buy a car don't even know much about cars even after they've bought it. They don't know much even after they've had their car for five years. All they've done is change the oil and put fuel in.

To say a window is just a frame with glass is as much to say a car is just four wheels and an engine. A football team is just eleven players and a ball.

When you purchase a computer an expert will have all kinds of demands the average user doesn't have. An expert may walk into the home of a novice and see straight away their computer shows they don't know much about computers. They might not even care about what they know. As you seem not to.

But, to repeat myself, a double glazing reinstall, which may become necessary when you have children to make them fire safe, or when you want to reduce energy bills for life, or when you need inusurance compliance because your front door isn't covered by your home contents policy, should take a little time to think about.

I don't really care if you made your decision after five minutes, biut if you did, you've left yourself open to exactly the kinds of information hiding practice you're complaining about.

With regards to "just leave a quote". I'm sorry but that's just ludicrous.

You can't walk into a taylor and say "Give me a quote on a made to measure suit!", he doesn't have a clue what you want.

You don't just walk into a hifi shop and say "How much for an ampolifier". You don't because you know a bit about it and you know there is more to it than that.

The reason people are cought out by unscrupulous sales tactics is that they think things like motor insurance are just third party or comprehensive and that's all there is to it.

It's literally allowing naivity to take over your life.

When it's something you know about, like shoes... do you ever make a decision in thirty minutes?

No.

You spend some time talking about styles, wear, soles, uppers, laces, colour, grip.

You do that for a pair of shoes..... a product with far less ramifications than home improvements.

Most people will spend more than ten minutes choosing a tie.

I don't see the point in labouring it further: If you're making snap decisions about a purchase which affects things such as the security of your home, its energy rating and its fire safety then that's your decision. I don't recommend it, but if you insist fine.

For some people a suit is a simple matter of is it navy or black? Fine. For most people there is a lot more to the decision than that. Especially if, like double glazing, you're having the whole thing made to measure.

Vascillious · 03/06/2016 19:33

"I feel very disgruntled.

My local window firm have measured up a new double glazed door, left me with a handy brochure with all of the info about the security details etc of said door and left within minutes. No mention of where my husband was or did he approve.

A couple of hours later I got a VERY reasonable quote through by email, no pressure to buy. I rang a week later to book, arranged a second visit to confirm measurements and handle style (10 minutes again) and arranged fitting for the following week"

Sounds fine. If you're happy with that.

Which side of the window is the beading on?

If it's on the outside there's a chance it's insurance exempt and when your house burns to the ground the insurance company won't give you a penny in compensation.

Did the salesman mention it?

Now, he wouldn't be legally aloud to that, because it constitutes intimidation. Nevetheless if he didn't talk about insurance exemption and ask you what's covered by your contents insurance, well... that's all I'm saying.

I'd call your insurance company and find out, of course, what will you do if they tell you it isn't compliant?

Cheap glazing is like a cheap car, a cheap watch, a cheap house. You get what you pay for.

Only, there are far more serious ramifications if you make a poor purchasing decision based on little but it being quick cheap and easy.

As I've said, since "high pressure" keeps being cited. High pressure sales is now illegal. You must have a choice and you must not be coerced or intimidated.

Again though, I'm not arguing you Should be coerced I'm saying you owe it to yourself to be informed on issues which might affect you both before and after you have made the decision.

Like I said, if you're determined not to be and that's a badge of honour for you, that's fine. It's not my life it's likely to affect.

PirateSmile · 03/06/2016 19:34

For someone who has so little time on their hands, you don't half talk a load of fucking bollocks.

GahBuggerit · 03/06/2016 19:35
Grin

Aww, bless......

PirateSmile · 03/06/2016 19:36

As for high pressure selling being illegal, I'm not sure which law it is illegal under and as the OFT are completely toothless tigers, most companies or rather their 'self-employed sales people' still do it anyway.

Vascillious · 03/06/2016 19:40

"For someone who has so little time on their hands, you don't half talk a load of fucking bollocks."

It just happens to be a load of Factual bollocks that I'm "talking" for your benefit, not mine.

PirateSmile · 03/06/2016 19:47

You really are wasting your time if you're writing this stuff for my benefit. Read the link I posted then tell me the double glazing industry is whiter than white.

Flisspaps · 03/06/2016 19:53

Pirate Grin

GahBuggerit · 03/06/2016 19:53

You talk of fire regs, safety etc. are you actually suggesting that some firms sell windows that arent safe? And people need knights in double glazed armour to help them pick the safe windows?

And who are these insurers with all their demands? my policy literally states that they must be lockable and in good condition Confused

HolesInTheFloor · 03/06/2016 19:54

Sorry not read the whole thread so apologies if it's moved on.

We got new windows a couple of years ago. Got a quote from a local company, seemed a bit pricey so got the Zenith guy round. He started to do all his spiel and would not stop no matter how many times dh said 'please just measure the windows and let us know if you can do it cheaper than this quote'. Eventually measured the bloody windows. Then said we could choose which offer we wanted - something like buy two windows get the third free based as long as it's after 3pm on a Tuesday or pay for half price for one window and get 76% off another window but only if you're a Pisces. Apparently 'can you not just do us a quote?' was insufficient and we had to choose a deal to be quoted on. I should mention dh is an accountant who studied maths at Oxford. He took the offers to work and now uses it in interviews when hiring it's so bloody difficult to make sense of.

Vascillious · 03/06/2016 19:59

"You really are wasting your time if you're writing this stuff for my benefit".

Obviously. And you say it as if you think it's something to be proud of.

I suppose ignorance is bliss for you.

You're exactly the kind of person the salesman loves to meet the most: Somebody who just doesn't give a shit about the details.

MurphysChild · 03/06/2016 20:02

Well I was enjoying this "slag the salesperson off thread" until the real double glazing Del Boys came on, now I am bored it's like they are in my home selling their shit to me, so I'm off!

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