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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to have stopped this from happening?

136 replies

addictedtooverreacting · 22/10/2012 01:57

Have namechanged for this.

My DF has always been big on discipline. We were spanked, belted etc., regularly for the smallest things.

All adults now so obviously this hasn't happened for many years.

My DSis has a 2.5 year old son and DF is quite harsh with him. He gets angry at him for playing too loudly etc. He has smacked him on the bum a couple of times, which has not gone down well but each time it was a family event and no one wanted to cause a scene. I felt awful, as though I had let DN down by not intervening.

Today as we were getting ready to leave, I asked DN to pack away his toys and he didn't. DF was in the room and told him sternly to put his toys away. When DN didn't do as he said DF stood him up and smacked his bum. I didn't say anything even though I was angry with him for doing it.

DN then sat down and told DF he would smack HIS bum.

My DF grabbed DN, threw him over his knee and started spanking him hard. I immediately threw my hand on top of DN and the second whack hit me instead of DN, who I tried to take away from DF. DF then yanked DN backwards and shoved me in the chest. I was furious and shaking and just kept saying you can't spank someone elses child without their permission. He started yelling at be for interfering and said it was the worst thing I could do because children need discipline and by going against him I was ruining everything.

I kept saying the same thing over and over, that you can't do that and he shoved me a few more times and told me to fuck off out of his house.

He's then been texting me since I got home telling me that because I don't have any children I don't know what I'm doing and I've fucked up my nephew by not letting him discipline him when he's being naughty. That I am always overreacting to everything (hence the NN) and I should stop causing trouble...

I know I'm probably not being unreasonable for stopping him spanking DN but he's making out like I've overreacted to the situation and am the sole cause of a big family blow out for what seems to be no big deal to him.

What else could I have done in that situation?

Sorry for the long post.

OP posts:
WilsonFrickett · 22/10/2012 14:37

You were brilliant. And I know how hard it would have been to do it, but you did it and we are all so proud of you. Please know that you haven't 'broken' the family - your DF did that, years ago. You now have the chance to make a new family, without violence, abuse or fear. Your DF can choose to join that family - or not - but it's up to him to change.

Stand firm, stick together with your Dsis. Make plans for a lovely Christmas. Decide between you on what grounds your DF can be part of that - what do you want? What does your sister want?

Get some support in RL. Get someone else to check your texts, don't look at them just yet because I worry you'll back down - not because you're not amazing, but because you have to relearn everything you know about dealing with your DF. It will take time, but you will do it.

Thanks
cutegorilla · 22/10/2012 14:41

YADNBU and he is, utterly :(. You and your DSis need to stick together and support each other to stand up to him. Well done you! Too many people would have been too scared to intervene.

applepearorangebear · 22/10/2012 14:41

YWNBU at all. I was smacked as a child on occasion, not particularly hard and I don't think it damaged me in the slightest. But my parents would not dream of smacking my DC and I would be livid if they did. As you say, it is totally wrong to smack someone else's child, no matter whose house they're in. Your dad sounds like a bully, and telling you that you can't have an opinion because you don't have children is really unpleasant, to say nothing of him pushing you around and swearing at you. This wasn't your fault at all, and I hope you know that.

Viewofthehills · 22/10/2012 14:48

My Dad flicked my son on the ear once over what was actually a misunderstanding. Anyway he was told once and for all it IS NOT his place and if he did it again he wouldn't see any of us at all.

You did really well to stop it and you really need to follow through now. So he shouldn't see any of you until he has actually apologised and you have his word that it won't happen again. And I would let him know he doesn't get a second chance on this one, but of course it is just as much up to your sister.

weblette · 22/10/2012 14:51

Wilson got it exactly right, you stood up for your DN, for your Dsis, for yourself. Well done x

CelineMcBean · 22/10/2012 14:55

YANBU. You are not responsible for any fall out from this - it was your father's bad behaviour not yours.

Do not apologize. Do not appease him. Do be proud you had the courage to intervene.

You can still be close with the rest of the family - you organise things and don't invite him until he apologises.

Original poster
addictedtooverreacting · 22/10/2012 14:57

Thank you everyone for replying and thanks for being so understanding.

I think we will probably be spending Christmas day at my sister's house. It won't be the same but I don't see another option right now.

My DN's father is not on good terms with his mother and tries to cause problems over nothing. He won't even allow DSis to have his phone number, even though they share custody, so I can't see him being much help.

As for DM, she has had a very tough marriage and now tries to be Switzerland for an easy life, which is completely understandable and no one holds it against her. Last night she was holding my DF back when he was trying to get in my face, but after we left she was placating him by agreeing with his side of things, though she phoned DSis afterwards to explain that she didn't really feel that way and supported what I'd done.

I won't apologise for it. DSis is adamant she won't be visiting him again, so we'll see if he cares more about his ego or his family when he hasn't seen us all for a few months.

OP posts:
diddl · 22/10/2012 15:01

Christmas with your sister & nephew-sounds lovely.

I hope your sister sticks to it.

It´s for her son´s sake!

Everlong · 22/10/2012 15:05

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

thebody · 22/10/2012 15:06

You are quite right, you supported and guarded your sis and nephew and that's great.

Your mom sounds like she has opted out of things and just tries to placate the bully, her sad choice really.

Hope you have a wonderful Christmas and you can be very very proud of yourself but understand how hard it is for you of course.

JustFabulous · 22/10/2012 15:07

Your post has really upset me but I wanted to say a HUGE WELL DONE for standing up to your father and protecting your nephew even though you must have been terrified.

Things will now be different but that doesn't mean they will be worse or wrong. They will be better without having to see someone who thinks it is more important to beat a 2 year old grandchild than to listen to the mother, their own daughter.

Your father is a violent bully. No one needs that in their life.

IneedAsockamnesty · 22/10/2012 15:10

another one saying you did the right thing well done.

dont back down and pander to a child abusers bullying.

SauvignonBlanche · 22/10/2012 15:10

That sounds horrible, well done OP for sticking up for your DN. Thanks

CaptainVonTrapp · 22/10/2012 15:11

He spanked his grandson and repeatedly shoved his adult daughter...

Agressive bully.

When you say the family is close I presume you mean as long as everyone does exactly what he wants (including apologising where he deems necessary).

You were absolutely right to stop this. I would have intervened on one of the earlier ocassions but I understand why you didn't.

Ignore his comments about you not being a parent. Still perfectly entitled to an opinion.

ICBINEG · 22/10/2012 15:12

I am so glad to see your last post...I have had a knot in my stomach all day fearing you would give in or god forbid apologize....

So very glad that you are sticking to your absolutely justified guns!

Original poster
addictedtooverreacting · 22/10/2012 15:17

The conflict I feel is because my DF is like 2 different people. He's a really great dad in the daytime and he'd do anything in his power for us. It's just when he starts drinking... I don't want to vilify him because daytime dad is great and it's like the bad dad is sabotaging the good dad. I know I cannot back down but I can't help feeling bad for the daytime version of him.

OP posts:
Original poster
addictedtooverreacting · 22/10/2012 15:19

Don't worry ICBINEG, my principles won't allow me to apologise for this. Ever.

OP posts:
ICBINEG · 22/10/2012 15:21

...but presumably it is daytime dad that decides to have a drink or 3 or 4?

I think that makes daytime dad pretty culpable.

Although I know what you mean.

worldgonecrazy · 22/10/2012 15:22

Your father is a violent bully. I'm really sorry but I think you are right to not go back to his house. It is not your fault that he is a violent bully. If you don't go back it is him who is at fault, not you. I hope you and your sister can stay strong so that he knows it is not okay to use violence on a 2 year old.

I also think he is absolutely vile to use your infertility as a weapon against you. I've been there (7 years of awful invasive treatments) and have been blessed with a 2 year old daughter. The thought of someone using violence on her makes me feel sick.

You are incredibly brave and strong. There has been some great advice and words on this thread. You can be very proud of yourself for standing up to this horrible bully.

You may find it useful to read some of the relationship threads - there are a lot of abusive men who get away with it because they are nice most of the time. They're still abusive all of the time though - they just know if they showed their true face no one would stick around to be abused. "Daytime dad" doesn't really exist - he's a construct to keep you there so that you can be abused.

MamaBear17 · 22/10/2012 15:24

If my dad or fil smacked my dd I would never let them see her again. I'd also probably break their nose. Smacking is a marmite issue, but not for me. Other people can do what they like with their children, but no one should ever hit someone elses child. What does your nephews mum think?

FolkGhoul · 22/10/2012 15:24

I can completely understand your conflict.

The thing is, 'bad dad' may be sabotaging 'good dad' but not without 'good dad's' consent.

Presumably he can remember what he has done when he has had a drink - including spanking his grandchild without their parent's consent and shoving his own adult daughter.

'Good dad' might not carry out this behaviour himself, but he certainly doesn't have a problem with 'bad dad' doing it when he does.

The fact is that you father has his greatest ally in your mother. While she apologises for his behaviour and placates him like this she is entirely complicit in it. Maybe your actions will force him (and your mother) to be honest about what is happening.

But if I'm honest, this has gone on for so long that I would imagine they would both be happy to let your, your sister and their grandchild go than they would be to face up to things. Sad situation.

Hopandaskip · 22/10/2012 15:25

Just because he is great when he isn't drinking doesn't excuse the drinking version. He is an abusive bully and you were brave standing up to him. Well done, you have NOTHING to apologize for, no matter what anyone else says. The 'his house' and 'no kids' is a red herring designed to disarm you and put you in your place, don't let him do it.

I bet your sister is very grateful for you intervening.

FolkGhoul · 22/10/2012 15:26

Please know that you haven't 'broken' the family - your DF did that, years ago

^^ this

OhTheConfusion · 22/10/2012 15:28

I feel so sorry for you OP :(

You did, and are doing, the right thing. Your DN will grow up feeling safe and enjoying small family christmas' insted of attending a large family gathering where alcohol is consumed and he is fearfull of being excited and enjoying chirstmas day. He is 2yrs old, christmas should be magical.

Also, not having children does not mean you can have no opinion. You know right from wrong and it is very wrong of your father to use your fertility problems against you Angry

Fluffycloudland77 · 22/10/2012 15:31

Thats child abuse.

Can you imagine what your dn's dad could do with this if he found out his child was violently hit?