to have stopped this from happening?

[addictedtooverreacting]

Have namechanged for this.

My DF has always been big on discipline. We were spanked, belted etc., regularly for the smallest things.

All adults now so obviously this hasn't happened for many years.

My DSis has a 2.5 year old son and DF is quite harsh with him. He gets angry at him for playing too loudly etc. He has smacked him on the bum a couple of times, which has not gone down well but each time it was a family event and no one wanted to cause a scene. I felt awful, as though I had let DN down by not intervening.

Today as we were getting ready to leave, I asked DN to pack away his toys and he didn't. DF was in the room and told him sternly to put his toys away. When DN didn't do as he said DF stood him up and smacked his bum. I didn't say anything even though I was angry with him for doing it.

DN then sat down and told DF he would smack HIS bum.

My DF grabbed DN, threw him over his knee and started spanking him hard. I immediately threw my hand on top of DN and the second whack hit me instead of DN, who I tried to take away from DF. DF then yanked DN backwards and shoved me in the chest. I was furious and shaking and just kept saying you can't spank someone elses child without their permission. He started yelling at be for interfering and said it was the worst thing I could do because children need discipline and by going against him I was ruining everything.

I kept saying the same thing over and over, that you can't do that and he shoved me a few more times and told me to fuck off out of his house.

He's then been texting me since I got home telling me that because I don't have any children I don't know what I'm doing and I've fucked up my nephew by not letting him discipline him when he's being naughty. That I am always overreacting to everything (hence the NN) and I should stop causing trouble...

I know I'm probably not being unreasonable for stopping him spanking DN but he's making out like I've overreacted to the situation and am the sole cause of a big family blow out for what seems to be no big deal to him.

What else could I have done in that situation?

Sorry for the long post.

[thebody]

If he's a violent drunk then he shouldn't drink but honestly op I think that drink can be used as an excuse and in no way is this acceptable. He knows what he's like when he drinks and becomess ' bad dad' so he is choosing to do this.

I think you have been incredibly forgiving towards your mom too.

I am sorry to say this but for bad to flourish good people just have to do or say nothing.

You said and did fantastic things. Well done x

[DublinMammy]

Addicted, well done for standing up to your dad and protecting your DN. You were very brave and I'd like to join the chorus of people on this thread telling you that.

My father was very violent when we were kids - slaps, punches and I recall once being curled up on the bedroom floor in a ball while he repeatedly kicked me. All this would be for the most minor "transgressions". On the other hand he could be great fun. It's so hard to explain the conflicted feelings I have about him now - Sabrina mentioned how her dad had mellowed over the years and is now lovely. My dad has certainly mellowed and can be lovely but I am still aware of the potential for violence in him and can never forget some of the incidents from my childhood. If he were to lay a finger on my DS I would never see him again, regardless of any wider repercussions within the family.

Don't feel bad for "daytime" dad - he is the same person who cannot control his temper and knows no other way to respond than with violence. He won't apologise, he doesn't think he has done anything wrong. Show him how wrong what he did is by sticking to your guns. Have a lovely Christmas with your DSis and DN.

[JustFabulous]

His "good day time dad act" does not make his abusive drunk dad reality okay.

[NotQuintAtAllOhNo]

Dont apologize to him. Tell your mum and him that you wont set your feet in his house until:

1. He has apologized for hitting a 2 year old
   
2. He has apologized for his behaviour towards you
   
3. He resists his urges to drink alcohol when his daughters and grandchild are present.
   

Maybe this will be the wake up call he needs.

[TerrorNotSoFrightened]

Well done to you, you did exactly the right thing.
Your dad sounds very similar to mine, minus the drinking, his temper doesn't need the added fuel to the fire.

This situation could well have occurred at my parents house, I know my DF smacks my 3yo DN, my sister knows about it though, she says nothing as she needs my parents for childcare.
I have a sneaking suspicion she hits her son also :(

If it ever happens to my DN in front of me, I would do exactly as you did.
If my DF ever tries it with my DC, I will defend them physically if need be, I will report my family to the police and SS, none of them will ever see my children again.

[SauvignonBlanche]

How is your DN today?

[youarewinning]

You were totally right.

It wasn't even a smack it was a hell bent spanking. It was purely done out of anger that a 2 yo had defied him. Your DN needs to learn why he needs to listen not be scared not to iyswim?

I'm sorry that this means a break up of your family for a while but pleased be reassured you did exactly the right thing and I'm sure your DN is very grateful to you.

I hope you have a great time at your sisters for Christmas. Just remember to enjoy the day and not keep thinking about how the situation came about.

[HeadlessForHalloween]

I would text back one last time stating, I will not apologise for stopping you from assaulting my DN, and will not come to your house again until YOU apologise for assaulting both DN and myself.

Then I would block his number.

[Coffeeformeplease]

Well done for what you did.
I wouldn't be back at their house before he apologized to me for pushing me around. He sounds a choleric bully. I also find you very forgiving towards your mum.

[addictedtooverreacting]

Thank you all. I really appreciate every post. I am surprised at the number of people who have said their DF sounds similar to mine.

My DM has been put through an awful lot by DF in the past 30 years so I can't hold anything against her for wanting an easy life; she deserves one.

sauvignon, he's fine. I'm not sure how much of it he took in really and he seems very resilient.

[SauvignonBlanche]

Thank goodness for that.
I hope he sees the error of his ways but from what you're saying, it doesn't sound very likely.

[JustFabulous]

He took it all in. It is obvious from his comment that his grandad hit him too hard.

[HoratiaWinwood]

OP, do you think your father hits your mother?

[addictedtooverreacting]

I know that he has on a few occasions over the years but he hasn't done it for a long time (not that that excuses anything).

[3LittleHens]

Actually this could be classed as abuse and against the law now.
He sounds very angry and aggressive - personally, I don't think a child of any age should be left alone with him.
Perhaps you should show him these postings - the penny might drop.
My mother could be very nasty verbally to my son, it was awful, and I tried to never leave him alone with her, unless I had to rush to the loo. She never babysat either - my instincts just wouldn't allow it. So sad.
I know she would have hit him, if I hadn't strongly told her that she wasn't allowed to.
I don't want to sound patronising, but well done, it sounds like it's about time he was stood up to.

[HoratiaWinwood]

I asked because I found her response very odd otherwise.

Bad Dad gets to hit everyone and nobody is allowed to disagree. Good Dad doesn't even apologise for that, but glosses over the incidents by being fun and loving.

You are doing such an important thing by breaking the cycle. You are helping your mother and your sister as well as your DN. Good on you, OP.

[midseasonsale]

You are totally 100% right.

His behaviour is abusive and actually you could go to the police

Do not see him again unless he promises never to touch DN. There are a million other ways to discipline - naughty step, explaining, rewards withdrawn etc .. Do not tolerate violence.

Never leave DN alone with him.

[Sarahplane]

Well done for staying strong. Xmas at your sisters sounds lovely. A small Xmas with lovely people who love him and who he feels safe with will be much better for your nephew and all of you than being scared of when your father looses his temper.

[IloveJudgeJudy]

Haven't had time to read the whole thread. We have had the same with my father. He (without my knowledge) had been mistreating my DS when he had picked him up from school. I had asked him to do this as, according to DM and him, he wanted to do this. He maybe did, but he mistreated DS. When I found out, I caused a big stink. This then turned into my fault. DM stuck by him, even tho he has mistreated her in the past.

Now, though, he is almost housebound and dependent on DM, who does not want this. She now will go out without him.

I say, do stick to your guns. I think you can sort of blame your DM (as I do mine, a bit) as she should have stuck up for you and your DSis when you were young. If DM doesn't want to come to you, well that's her lookout. We were blamed when we wouldn't have my father at our house for some occasions, but now she just goes without him. (There is a lot more to this story, but it's too long and convoluted for this time of night.)

You are right in your previous post, though. There are lots of us who have suffered from horrible, PA fathers who managed to upset lots of situations and we all put up with it for an exceedingly long time so as to save face among others. What a waste.

Good for you, OP, for standing up for DN. And very good for not backing down. Whatever happens, remember, you can only decide your own response to any situation. You cannot make people do what you want. They have to decide what they want to do.

[DeckSwabber]

Sorry I haven't read all these post - just wanted to say well done for stepping in.

I think you need to just quietly talk to your sister and make other arrangements for Christmas because I see no prospect of your father not drinking. And don't let anyone pin the blame on you.

[FlamingoBingo]

Addicted, I just wanted to tell you about my father. He is also an alcoholic, although he was never violent in this way with my brother or I. However, his behaviour to us over the years because of his alcoholism has screwed me up. Last year I got as close to a nervous breakdown as you can get. The only thing that kept me out of hospital was the support of my mum, step-dad and my parents-in-law who took over EVERYTHING for six weeks so I could have respite and stay with the kids. I hated my father for years.

Since last year I have come to the point you have - I feel a huge amount of compassion for him. No one is born a bully. Your father is screwed up, and alcoholism and the perpetuation of abuse are simply symptoms of serious mental illness.

However, having compassion for your father is wonderful, but his life is his responsibility, not yours. Understanding this for myself was a huge burden off my shoulders for me. Understanding that asking him to stay out of my life completely for the time being, knowing it could tip him over the edge, and feeling desperately sorry for him in his illness, was hard. But I knew that I had to protect my children by breaking a cycle of mentall illness and that meant no contact with him, as whenever I heard from him, or expected to, it would tip me over into serious depression, which put my children at risk themselves.

What I'm trying to say is, you have to remind yourself, whenever you feel sorry for your dad and his struggle with alcoholism, his life is his responsibility, not yours. Loving kindness for him does not mean you need to act to fix him when there is something/someone more vulnerable at risk from doing so.

Print out this thread and re-read it whenever you or DSis soften and forget the depth of what happened, which is easily done with time and distance. You and your DSis are brave women and have done a wonderful thing to stop your cycle perpetuating to your DN.

[musicalendorphins]

Do not apologuise. The family could write a letter to him and everyone sign it. He's a bully and he has a lot of nerve thinking he can spank someone elses kid.
You were right to do what you did, he was way wrong, and you can have Christmas without him. Unless he apologizes to everyone including dn.

[Valdeeves]

I too have been shocked by this post - how awful that your family are blaming you. If they do then they don't have to face up to the fact that your father is a violent man with a drinking problem Out probably let him smack him the first time because you are used to seeing him be violent - but believe me that is not Norma behaviour and if he's doing over such small things I wonder if he's getting a kick out of it.
Please don't let your sister leave him alone with him - he will bring fear and violence into that child's life / if he sees it being accepted them that encourages him to think that way. Especially as he also was violent with you in the child's presence.
You did the right thing - whatever you do DO NOT APOLOGISE. You cannot allow this to be seen as acceptable, You are an axing auntie - if you were my sister I'd feel very happy you protected my son.

[Valdeeves]

a wonderful auntie!

[Goldmandra]

^ Too right^

*Valdeeves' comment says it all.