to have stopped this from happening?

[addictedtooverreacting]

Have namechanged for this.

My DF has always been big on discipline. We were spanked, belted etc., regularly for the smallest things.

All adults now so obviously this hasn't happened for many years.

My DSis has a 2.5 year old son and DF is quite harsh with him. He gets angry at him for playing too loudly etc. He has smacked him on the bum a couple of times, which has not gone down well but each time it was a family event and no one wanted to cause a scene. I felt awful, as though I had let DN down by not intervening.

Today as we were getting ready to leave, I asked DN to pack away his toys and he didn't. DF was in the room and told him sternly to put his toys away. When DN didn't do as he said DF stood him up and smacked his bum. I didn't say anything even though I was angry with him for doing it.

DN then sat down and told DF he would smack HIS bum.

My DF grabbed DN, threw him over his knee and started spanking him hard. I immediately threw my hand on top of DN and the second whack hit me instead of DN, who I tried to take away from DF. DF then yanked DN backwards and shoved me in the chest. I was furious and shaking and just kept saying you can't spank someone elses child without their permission. He started yelling at be for interfering and said it was the worst thing I could do because children need discipline and by going against him I was ruining everything.

I kept saying the same thing over and over, that you can't do that and he shoved me a few more times and told me to fuck off out of his house.

He's then been texting me since I got home telling me that because I don't have any children I don't know what I'm doing and I've fucked up my nephew by not letting him discipline him when he's being naughty. That I am always overreacting to everything (hence the NN) and I should stop causing trouble...

I know I'm probably not being unreasonable for stopping him spanking DN but he's making out like I've overreacted to the situation and am the sole cause of a big family blow out for what seems to be no big deal to him.

What else could I have done in that situation?

Sorry for the long post.

[rumbelina]

YADNBU!

[WhereYouLeftIt]

Well, however hard you try to drill it, he's not getting it. TBH, I can see why, because, sorry, the message you're sending isn't precise enough. The whole idea that you can smack someone else's child IF YOU HAVE THEIR PERMISSION - well, to his mind, this is the child of one of his daughters, so of course he has permission (hence his insistence that in his house he has the right - implied permission from placing yourself in his domain). That's how he'll be twisting it in his mind. The message needs to be less open to (twisted) interpretation - 'you don't hit any child, anywhere, ever'. And the message could probably do with a sanction too (if you hit, x will happen).

And, you're texting him about his behaviour, but it's not just his behaviour that is at fault; it is his beliefs and frankly his very person. He is a bully, and until he accepts that he will not accept that his behaviour is wrong. That's why I would be going for the jugular a bit more if I were you.

Being a bit freer with his hitting when drunk - yegods, what a cliche! But alcohol just removes inhibitions, so really he's no nicer sober, just better able to keep his mask on.

And as for the 'you should have no opinion' -pftt, a stranger walking past on the street would have an opinion on this incident. The child's aunt is certainly entitled to one. He's just trying to hurt you by having a dig, in the hope of drawing your attention away from the matter at hand, i.e. his assault on his grandchild.

[Ozziegirly]

I think you did a good and brave and strong thing, standing up to your dad. It must have been very hard to do. Well done.

I don't think you could have done anything differently.

I wouldn't apologise. I would stay icy calm and simply say "I'm not going to apologise for stopping you beating your two year old grandchild."

[ZombTEE]

Don't apologise. Stop replying to his texts. He's the one who caused the rift in the family.

Plan a lovely Christmas at your house.

[Rachog]

I second zombtee have your sis and dn round to yours at Christmas without him.

You did exactly the right thing, well done for being brave enough. Certainly don't apologise and I wouldn't bother testing him anymore either. He should be apologising to you and your ds!

[FolkGhoul]

You did absolutely the right thing.

Unfortunately, standing up to someone who has behaved like this in the way you did quite often does cause big family problems. That's generally why everyone keeps quiet and allows it to continue.

Do not, under any circumstances, apologise to him. Is having Christmas at your house for your sister, nephew and any other family member who chooses to support you possible?

[EmmaBemma]

"You didn't do anything wrong - but I would have stepped in much sooner."

Oh really. Do you have any idea how difficult it is to recover from growing up with a violent parent, and what a hold they can still have over you in adult life? I think the OP was really brave, and did the best she could for her nephew in a horrible situation.

[FolkGhoul]

Absolutely Emma.

But I don't think anyone can understand it unless they have been there themselves.

I think people imagine it would make you quicker to stand up to it because you know what it is like. It's not that simple though.

[TheSkiingGardener]

I think you did absolutely the right thing and you and your sister need to keep telling your father that he was wrong and neither of you will stand for that kind of abuse.

[giraffesCantGoGuisingAsZebras]

well done op

[CrackerJackShack]

Frankly I wouldn't go back in that house if you paid me. You're an adult and your father pushed you and verbally assaulted you after you tried to stop him from beating his nephew. If I were you I'd text back and say: "We will not be seeing you for Christmas. Take this time to think about what you've done. You're my father and I love you, but you assaulted DN and me, and if you EVER do it again, I will call the police."

[LadyMargolotta]

Your poor DN, and poor you for what you experienced as a child. If you ever have children, be brave enough to keep them away from this bully.

[Ohhmydaze]

whether you have children or cant have them does not alter whether you can have an opinion on assaulting children

I would text him once and tell him you wont be going to his house again unless HE apologises.

Difficult, as it seems like you wont persuade him that he was wrong.

you could drive the point home by reporting him to the police??

is your mum around at all? where does she stand on this? and where did she stand when you were small and your dad used to beat you?

[GColdtimer]

You did the right thing bug I agree the message you are giving him isn't strong enough. The fact that it is wrong to hit a child and whatever he believes has no place in this. I xm just looking at my high spirited 2.5 year old and cannot imagine what I would do if someone started brating her, let alone if it was a parent. . Grandparents are for cuddles and chocolate buttons.

I was also wondering about your mum. Is she around and has she said anything or has she been bullied into submission?

[diddl]

He sounds horrible.

To taunt about not being able to have children-vile, vile, vile man.

I would happily not see him again.

He doesn´t deserve to see his GS again either-he hits him FFS.

[storminabuttercup]

You did absolutely the right thing. You have nothing to apologise for. Poor DN

[Flisspaps]

Well done for standing up to him OP.

A single smack, if absolutely necessary, can be appropriate to some people. Putting a toddler over your knee, hitting them repeatedly and then assaulting your daughter because she stops you can never, ever be understandable or forgiven. What an utter bastard Hope you're OK. Your poor DN.

Stop texting. Stop contact. YY to a lovely little Christmas with you, DSis and DN.

[CouthyMowEatingBraiiiiinz]

I'm so glad that you stood up to your father. Your DN now knows that he has a wonderful Auntie, and a lovely Mum, both of whom will stand up for him and protect him NO MATTER WHO is behaving unacceptably towards him.

To those saying the OP didn't act quickly enough, you obviously haven't had a childhood where this was normal. For the OP to stand up to her Father like this was MASSIVE.

Because she refused to stand idly by and do nothing, she got assaulted too. But what she did do was huge.

This boy now knows that NOBODY, not his granddad, not anybody, is meant to hit him. That is a very powerful thing. He knows that his Auntie and Mum will stand up for him.

[IDontDoIroning]

He has no idea of how awful his behaviour is. Dies your dn go to childminder, pre school or nursery ?

If he was to disclose this incident (ie grandad started hitting me then he pushed auntie addicted and shouted really loudly because she tried to stop him) to anyone in a childcare profession it should trigger a safeguarding incident. This may involve police and social workers.

I'm not totally anti smacking and attitudes have changed over the generations but the fact that he can't seem to control his temper really concerns me. To lay the child over his knee and repeatedly spank him for not putting toys away quickly enough knowing his own mother is in the same house is a serious over reaction. Secondly his attitude now is a worry, he can't accept he is on the wrong. Your family is doing the children in the family no favours if they attempt to minimise this to "not rock the boat".

[MaggotMummy]

Just wanted to say that I have massive respect for you OP for standing up to your father, to those who do not have experience of regular 'discipline' from bullying parents when a child this is a huge deal, it means that she is facing all her childhood fears for the sake of your nephew.

If you feel that you can talk to you dad again, it clearly needs to be early in the day, not in his house and with both you and your sister together. Personally I would avoid it for a good long while, if the wider family really need this explaining to them, write a letter for them, detailing your feelings and experiences and explain why it is that you have made your stand.

As for him taunting you about childlessness, well shame on him, for me this would just about finish any possibility of a future relationship.

[LifeIsBetterInFlipFlops]

You've made your point to him, don't expect him to apologise or understand - it's not likely to happen. But take satisfaction from knowing you've done the right thing. For the sake of family relationships, you all need to move on, but you all know now not to leave DF alone with kids. Not ideal, but you can't reason with the unreasonable.

[blackeyedsusan]

first of all. well done for intervening. you did the right thing. you protected you dn when things were getting out of hand. you should be really proud of yourself. you may actually have saved yourdn from being fucked up.

I am pretty sure the police would take a dim view of his behavioutr towards you and ss would take an extremely dim view of his behaviour to dn.

[picnicbasketcase]

I hope your DSis sticks to what she's said. He sounds like a violent bully. Who the hell starts drinking and uses their toddler GC as a punchbag?

[UndeadPixie]

Yadnbu! My dad was big on smacking when my twi sisters and I were kids, mainly me and my older sister (two eldest). He realises now that he went overboard, but our relationship with him has been affected by it. Don't apologise, you were not in the wrong, he was. I hope that your sister doesn't stand down either as her chills will not thank her for it!

[FreakySnuckerCupidStunt]

YANBU my Dad used to 'spank' me and my brother and I have vivid memories of my Mother giving us cold flannels to put on our backsides to stop people from seeing the bruises, because he would literally smack us for half an hour at a time.

It's still a huge bone of contention between us. Whilst I am not a violent person, if someone raised their hand to my child, I would find it hard to restrain myself.