AIBU to think that this restaurant/Pub shouldn't really refer to itself a "family friendly"

[1Catherine1]

Yesterday, my fiance a I went to a hotel/pub/restaurant place with our daughter who is 18 months old. We went to check the place out as it has quite a nice wedding package.

The part we were in was quite empty and apart from the the table of 4 who were in the same room but around the corner and about 10 foot away, the whole area was empty.

My daughter started getting restless so to amuse her I stood up and bounced her on my hip, tickled her, played peekaboo and let her on the floor to run around where there was nobody (well out of view of the other table - she ran the other way). The only noise that anyone could hear was the noise of my daughter laughing.

A few minutes later, when my daughter was sat on my hip again and I was bouncing her again a woman from the pub came over and informed us they "this is a restaurant" and the behaviour was unacceptable and if we didn't stop we would have to leave. I was so taken back by this I conformed and sat down with her, and put my DD on the breast to stop her making any noise. When my meal arrived, I ate it quickly and was desperate to leave.

AIBU to think that the noise of an 18 month old giggling in an establishment that welcomes families shouldn't be "unacceptable"? I'm also surprised at myself. Thinking back I really think I should have just picked up my daughter and left and not waited for the food. Especially as the woman spent the rest of our time there nipping out and blatantly checking if we were finished - it was like she couldn't get us out of the door quick enough.

Maybe I'm too used to my fiance's hotel, his boss (the owner) loves children so loves nothing more than to hear them happy.

If I am a smug mother because I have not let me DCs cause an accident with hot food or drink then hell yes! I am Smug.

Perfectly behaved babies? No, not initially? Of course not! They need to be shown, taught, guided FFS Heavy handbag because it is full of stuff to entertain my children when we go out for meals? Yes. Taken years to enjoy a meal in a restaurant because of the need to teach my DC how to behave? Yes.

Now, DCs are 4 and 6 yo. They know not to run around. They know not to use an outside voice/volume. They DH & I (smug) get complimented on how well they behave in restaurants. We can all have alovely mostly relaxing meal out. We still have to remind them of the rules. But is like any part of parenting - you have to be consistent. And not have tickling sessions!

Yes. Smug. And Safe. Thanks to working at it.

No, not a baby, a toddler.
Vocal, vibrant, and walking/running. And the op entertained her child by vivacious noisy games, rather than crayons, books, etc.

YABU quiet games in restaurants, books, colouring talking, teaching manners etc. Calm and serene.
Its very pleasurable to have your dc's behaviour complemented on in restaurants believe me!
I avoid restaurants which are aimed at young children now mine are young adults. I don't want your child making noise, running around and spoiling my enjoyment. You adore your child, I don't.
How would you feel if you were away from your children for a romantic meal out and you had to put up with noise of someone else's child running around?

OP - YANBU. We can't all immediately be perfect and smug parents. I have always taken the little lobsters out to eat. In the main it has gone well. Other times, not so good, so over time I have learnt tactics. Good on your for taking your little one out to eat. An important part of family life in our household.
People make me laugh. Apparently, a family friendly eatery provides high chairs and children's meals but on no account must children use the said high chair or eat the said kids meal, lest they should behave like children!
Fwiw, the worst behaviour I have seen whilst eating out has been by adults. Another child giggling - not something that offends me.

There appear to be two versions of family-friendly on here: one version focuses on the mechanics ("we have high-chairs and kid's portions") and the other focuses on the attitude ("we're relaxed about noise. It's a pub, not a museum"). I personally prefer the latter camp, myself. My personal red lines are:
1 more than one minute of crying without the parents getting up to take the child out
2 children coming over to our table
3 adults using mobile phones very VERY LOUDLY
4 adults having loud rows / getting aggressive
5 adults guffawing at top volume
3, 4 and 5 happen to us a lot more than 1 and 2

On this topic: I remember with gratitude a meal at Le Manoir aux Quat'Saisons, where the maitre d' encouraged use to let our then 2yo dd wander round on the floor between our table and the vestibule. He wasn't worried about an accident, because he believed his staff could cope. And he thought other customers would prefer the child to be quiet and wandering than required to stay at seat and loudly complaining. He seemed to be right, too. It's odd because Le Manoir has a real "temple of haute cuisine" feel to it, quite reverential, but they genuinely seem to have drunk the Raymond Kool Aid about positively welcoming children.

Slhilly - totally agree.
OP - where are you looking to get married? Someone may be able to suggest a true family friendly establishment. Where I got married was a lovely, independent hotel. Smart but in no way snooty, and welcomed children with open arms.

Also agree with Slhilly.

This thread is depressing - typically British miserable, intolerant attitude to children. It's always a pleasant surprise to go to a French, Spanish, Portuguese, Italian restaurant and find they seem to quite like kids.

Funny that- ive been to many restaurants on the continent and kids never seem to be wandering around or creating- in fact if you eat out anywhere in Italy kids have impeccable table manners from the offset, theres none of this wandering around/running/'socialising' with strangers (i.e pestering those trying to eat in peace/socialise with the people they are sat with).
Everytime this sort of thing is discussed people use 'well in europe' as an argument for kids to roaming around when in honesty it just doesnt happen!

British people can never make up their minds. You will not see children running about in restaurants in Italy. You hardly ever see them with colouring in things. They are expected to sit and behave themselves.

I love children. Doesn't mean I want to step over them when I'm carrying six plates etc.

We are talking about an 18 month old here, not a 5 year old. Agree that older children are usually better behaved in European restaurants, which is probably because they have more practice - how is your child going to learn restaurant manners if you never take him out just in case he misbehaves?

The attitude is totally different. Your typical European waiter will tell your bored toddler a joke to help entertain him, here we get the cats bum faces and comments/requests expressed in unnecessarily narky tones, as if annoying behaviour is a moral failure rather than a normal develop

... developmental phase.

Sorry posted too soon.

I have never had any problems with waiting on staff giving us 'cats bum faces' or being anything other than helpful when we are out probably because we take every effort to ensure that the children behave themselves and don't annoy others or leave the place a mess.

European children do seem to be,in the main, better behaved in restaurants than British children. Not all obviously. It's also not frowned upon for children in Europe to be out late in a restaurant.

OP maybe misjudged the atmosphere of the restaurant in question. They're well within their rights to ask you to stop your child running about etc.

You are wildly misinterpreting the term "family friendly", op.
It means children can be catered for, ie, childrens meals are on offer, highchairs are available, etc. but no more than that. They are no more welcome to run about shrieking than you would be yourself.

YABU!
As a former waitress, my pet hate is children being allowed to 'run around'.

There certainly are restaurants in Europe where kids are welcome to wander round! I'll never forget a huge restaurant in Mallorca at 10pm that was packed to the rafters with extended Spanish families sitting in very long benches and eating and chatting with great gusto. A laughing child would not have been able to be heard in that place!

I sense confirmation bias in this thread...

I think people have been objecting to children running around not laughing!

Thezoobmeister I agree with your post. I think there is a far lower tolerance level for children and toddlers in public spaces and premises in Britain than pretty much anywhere else. A hangover from the Victorian days of 'children seen but not heard' perhaps? You would hardly ever get a cat's bum face if you were out with children in Ireland. Or even the US.

I think the issue is more with how it was handled by the staff.

I think they should have said something like 'Sorry but please don't let her run around in here because it could be dangerous, etc etc'. 'This is a restaurant', 'unacceptable' and 'you will have to leave' are too strong considering it was the first time they'd approached you about it.

It's always a pleasant surprise to go to a French, Spanish, Portuguese, Italian restaurant and find they seem to quite like kids.

It's also a pleasant surprise to see how much better behaved children are in restaurants in those countries too.

I've seen babies / todlers passed between adults, sit drawing or just sitting and eating. I have not seen them playig peekabo or being tickled.

YANBU. It's a difficult age but they soon grow out of it and are much easier to entertain at the table. Even if they were concerned about her safety (hot food etc) they could have handled it in a more pleasant way. I once took DD (3) to a fairly posh teashop and was slightly apprehensive but they could not have been more pleasant - deliberately placed us in a fairly empty area, brought her a teddy-bear shaped biscuit (not on the menu), encouraged her to play on the floor, and chatted to her every time they came over. It was lovely.

Coco maths and shh I'm with you on this. Attitude is a big part of this, not just the waiters but the general feeling about children in public spaces. We have our two reasonably well trained now (2 & 3) but that only happened because we frequented family FRIENDLY places where the waiters were actually friendly and forgiving of our higgedly piggeldy table. They have to learn and the noise of a child being distracted IN A PUB should not be an offensive noise. I find meals out in France incredibly stressful as they expect the perfect child but Italy where we spend most time is a dream with children. Attitude- meals with my parents everyone is relaxed the children are spoken to and generally well behaved if not whipped off by us or grandparents for a walk. With my Victorian English in laws there is lots of tutting, sniffing and 'can't you keep those children silent while the adults enjoy their meal for two hours'. I'm stressed, the kids pick up on it and it all spirals into miserableness.
Teaching children to be good at eating out takes time,tolerance and a common sense attitude to the venue, those around you,a big bag of toys and an acceptance that sometimes it just won't work and be prepared to pack up and go.
Some people however just don't like any children except their own.

Playing peekaboo and tickle games with an 18mth old!!! . What a F*ing disgrace OP! Don't you know that children should be seen and not heard!!

MN really is full of a bunch of miserable old witches sometimes! And yes, restaurants on the continent that I've been to (many) are far more tolerant of a baby/toddler wandering about. Maybe that's because they have more competent staff?

Dear God, I cannot believe anyone would object to playing peekaboo with a toddler in a restaurant! How exactly is that objectionable? Here the waiters join in with that kind of game and even let DS examine their hand-held devices, as he's fascinated by them. There are also plenty of places where kids are allowed to run around and many adult looking places have kids corners. Our favourite place is a restaurant bar that is a busy nightclub in the evening and hosts baby groups during the day. The British attitude to shared social space could really do with re-examining, if this thread is really the typical response.