AIBU to be absolutely horrified by this way of thinking?

[WantsToBeFree]

The YouTube video above has some interesting views on "birth rape", which have scared me a bit to be honest. This guy appears to think that when a woman walks into a hospital to give birth, she has given implied consent to any examination or procedure that they may decide to perform on her. If she isn't agreeable, then she should just deliver the baby alone, at home.

WHAT?!?!?!

I understand that for some obvious things there is consent (the doctor will have to touch the genitals while guiding the baby out etc.) , but there is no implied consent for forceps, ventouse, episiotomies and c sections! These are serious procedures which can only be performed after the necessity has been explained to the mother and her consent has been obtained. Only in a minuscule proportion of cases would there be a situation where the doctor doesn't even have 2 minutes to at least get verbal consent.

And yes, I do think that even though we don't have medical degrees we have the final say in what does or doesn't happen to our bodies. I also think that it isn't unreasonable for a woman to feel violated if a procedure was performed on her without her express consent during the delivery or if her dignity and modesty were disregarded.

I think most of us realise that childbirth is unpredictable and involves intimate exposure. However, this doesn't mean that the healthcare professionals can treat us however they want and that we have to give them a carte blanche to do what they please.

I am stupefied that people (who claim to be liberals) actually think that way. Interestingly, these are the same guys who were furious when the transvaginal ultrasound was made mandatory for women seeking abortions in an American state and they called it "government sanctioned rape". Well, if the doctor can't put an ultrasound probe in my fanjo without my consent, why do they think it's Ok for him/her to put in a pair of forceps without my consent or worse, against my consent?

Even liberals are misogynistic when it comes to childbirth....

GhostShip

Maybe you need to think about how insensitive that statement sounds- "Just because it involves your vagina doesn't make it rape". Right then. As long as the intentions are non sexual, I suppose anyone can then put vibrators, ultrasound probes, speculums, or any object really into my vagina and it'll all be OK because according to you its not rape.

For you, rape must involve a penis. I wonder what the teenager from Ohio who was raped with a Snaplle bottle will have to say to that....

And no kicking a man in the balls is not rape, it's assault. But shoving a rod up his bum will qualify as rape, even if your intent isnt sexual. That may not be UK law (yet) but it increasingly being followed in other countries.

"A controlled cut IMO is much better than a spontaneous tear"
and you are qualified to make this statement how? There are plenty of fully trained medical professionals who would say otherwise.

Ghostship, I would be very interested to read any studies showing that episiotomies are better than tearing. All the studies I have ever seen have shown that tears actually heal better than cuts. Cuts look better and are easier to suture but actually heal a lot worse. It seems obvious that a controlled cut would be better, which is why it used to be done to every women regardless, but (just to reiterate) although it seems it would be better, studies show that it isn't.

Episiotomies should to prevent bad tearing can only be used once it is obvious there is going to be bad tearing and that usually happens so fast a doctor/midwife can't really do much about it.

Of course there are situations where epis are appropriate but if someone is going to get a 3rd/4th degree tear it is usually due to other risk factors (large baby, assisted delivery etc etc) and an epi doesn't actually protect the perineum, just makes the damage look a bit neater.

Either way, it is the woman's choice, not the doctor. He may think that she would be better to have a cut than a tear but it is her body, her choice. I would be very unhappy to have you as my midwife if you think otherwise.

Further down this thread there is a post from someone who has been "violated" (in her own words) during labour, and who has also been raped. She says she will not use the term birth rape, and that this violation was "nowhere near" that.

As I said, I had two pretty ghastly experiences with internal examinations that were very poorly handled. But I have no (thank God) been raped.

Either way, it is the woman's choice, not the doctor. He may think that she would be better to have a cut than a tear but it is her body, her choice. I would be very unhappy to have you as my midwife if you think otherwise

Not once have I said it isn't the woman's choice. Don't mix my words.

And I've already said a few times that this is horrific and SHOULD NOT be happening. But to use the term birth rape? Don't even go there. And don't personally attack me just because I don't agree with your terminology.

It is not rape. It is medical abuse and malpractice.

Ghost you are funny. How can you possibly know

How do you know I don't know? Do you know me? No. So stop assuming.

I'm sorry but the man who raped me was an entirely different beast from the wanker Dr that VIOLATED me, and their crimes were very different too.

Rape is rape. Violation is violation. Neither is right, both shouldn't happen, one should have a professional strategy in place and a professional accountabilty, one should be punishable by the law (personally more for me but hey ho, I'm balanced).

I was traumatised by my birthing experience, it was horrific, and yes, some of the feelings I felt were similar to the violation of being raped but in context, from every angle, the two incidents were very VERY different. I didn't feel abused for power or sexual gratification when I was violated in hospital. I didn't feel as understanding or expect there to be a procedure protecting both me and the 'violator' when I was raped. They are two very different beasts.

aldiwhore you should never have had to go through either. I hope you're ok now x

I can only describe how I feel. I don't think me feeling raped devalues the term and I think it's important to acknowledge that there is a vast spectrum of experience within this term.

In my case I am not talking about medical procedures performed without consent which while I accept are horrendous I would not define as rape.

I am just saying there are some of us who have been through horrors that would be defined as rape has they not happened in a hospital.