AIBU to be absolutely horrified by this way of thinking?

[WantsToBeFree]

The YouTube video above has some interesting views on "birth rape", which have scared me a bit to be honest. This guy appears to think that when a woman walks into a hospital to give birth, she has given implied consent to any examination or procedure that they may decide to perform on her. If she isn't agreeable, then she should just deliver the baby alone, at home.

WHAT?!?!?!

I understand that for some obvious things there is consent (the doctor will have to touch the genitals while guiding the baby out etc.) , but there is no implied consent for forceps, ventouse, episiotomies and c sections! These are serious procedures which can only be performed after the necessity has been explained to the mother and her consent has been obtained. Only in a minuscule proportion of cases would there be a situation where the doctor doesn't even have 2 minutes to at least get verbal consent.

And yes, I do think that even though we don't have medical degrees we have the final say in what does or doesn't happen to our bodies. I also think that it isn't unreasonable for a woman to feel violated if a procedure was performed on her without her express consent during the delivery or if her dignity and modesty were disregarded.

I think most of us realise that childbirth is unpredictable and involves intimate exposure. However, this doesn't mean that the healthcare professionals can treat us however they want and that we have to give them a carte blanche to do what they please.

I am stupefied that people (who claim to be liberals) actually think that way. Interestingly, these are the same guys who were furious when the transvaginal ultrasound was made mandatory for women seeking abortions in an American state and they called it "government sanctioned rape". Well, if the doctor can't put an ultrasound probe in my fanjo without my consent, why do they think it's Ok for him/her to put in a pair of forceps without my consent or worse, against my consent?

Even liberals are misogynistic when it comes to childbirth....

Sorry, that doesn't make any sense.

I meant....Could ANY medical intervention done without consent from the patient be considered rape then?

That's better.

free I did tell them I wanted to change position again and try and was fully supported to do so. Unfortunately as she was a second twin her head was awkwardly positioned so I consented to the forceps after much trying.

I don't agree with the term at all. What if the mother refuses consent to these procedures, therefore as a result of not performing them the baby and mother coild be harmed. dd was born by ventouse delivery, it was explained that this would be happening as baby was in distress and a c section if it did not woork, i dont recall being asked my consent. I would not cared if they hung me upside down to dry, I wanted my baby out alive and well and would not matter how they did it, ventouse, forceps, episiotomy c section

I couldn't give a damn what they used to get my precious baby into the world.

However not every women feels the same, and some would prefer a c-section over the use of medical instruments.

Piglet, I would view it as a cancer patient refusing chemo or a JW refusing blood products.

I think it's a terrible term, and I also think the woman who has coined the term has set the australian home birth movement back ten fold.

I do agree that many women have been cared for by people who have minimal tact, sensitivity and professionalism and have suffered for many years unduly for it, but I am yet to meet a health care worker who was not well intentioned. This is where I feel the word is misguided.

Exactly mchappy,when giving birth I had my egs in stirrups, fanny open to the world. Dd was delivered by venouse delivery. Unfortunately when you have a baby you kind of give up your body a bit, the exit of a baby is through an intimate and private area so yes it has to be examined to check your baby is well or perform proceedures that will ensure the safe delivery of up your baby. Imagine if this did not happen and mothers and babies were armed or died we would all be suing the hospital and drs. Tey are damned if they do and damed if they dont

Yes it's not dignified but giving birth is not

But what if the baby wouldn't be harmed? There definitely are times when someone should be able to refuse and be listened to. I would be no better off with those stitches, I was forced to have them and now I am mutilated because my skin can't hold stitches so they all tore out.

There was a thread about the Royal Free hospital and it was a Consultant from there on it talking to people, one of the women was refused admission to the birth centre without an internal even though she specifically said she didn't want one. She had to accept it to be admitted, I would consider that sexual assault.

If it is considered rape if someone is coerced into sex or drunk why would the term be so bad to be used on a woman who is strapped to a bed, hands forced up her etc? I really don't understand that.

These proceedures are generally done to get the baby out fast as they are in distress. Proceedures are done because they need to be not for the fun of it. Yes you do have to be examined to check the baby

Perspective here, they are necessary to ensure te health and well being of mother and baby. I am not a health professional btw. Sexual assault, now I'm hearing it Wth

No you dont have to be examined vaginally to check the baby! They can check heart rate etc via doppler, ferl.tummy or use ultra sound to check babies position a vaginal examination doesnt check the well being if the baby.

I didn't consider it to be that way with me, completely against my wishes though, yes.

Some others I have seen on here though I would consider it to be assault and it shouldn't happen.

It takes two seconds to say do you mind if I examine you?.

That is taking it too far tbh schrodinger. I bet some of you would be the first to sue if anything went wrong due to refusing medical interventions to get your baby out

No distress in me or baby ? only half way through allotted hour post 10 cm did I want to push ? but registrar was called as it was policy.

As he was there clearly had to do something and despite baby being there being no hurry ? the labour hadn?t been very long and the unit wasn?t busy -he had the ventouse equipment ready and put a episiotomy in.

He had not bothering to ask consent he went ahead. MW clearly wasn?t very happy.

I?ve had two deliveries since where I tore down this scar and the pain from the tears have been much less painful and healed quicker than that first episiotomy which was very painful for first few weeks.

Few weeks before first birth I?d was expecting to have a C-section and was fine with that so I?m not anti-intervention. It could have been a lot worse ? I?ve heard some real horror stories but it was unnecessary pain for me and for no good reason.

My next two births have been HB.

Yes I aways was asked if I could be examined, and the reason why yes always consented as I was concerned for my baby

You may have been treated with compassion and as an intelligent being Piglet. Far too many women are not. Until the baby is born, it is the mother who is the patient and deserves to be involved in her treatment and consent sought.

My baby was not in distress but just awkwardly positioned. Birth seems very medicalised IMO. Women who are not dilating at the 1cm per hour being given oxytoxin to speed it up as a first option. I have been told to get my epidural now because I will be in too much pain later,despite telling them I didn't want one.

And thats your choice piglet after an awful experience with ds1 i chose to avoid vaginal examinations unless really needed with my subsequent births. They are often done every so many hours just because, that isnt necessary. Nor was the dr wanting to do one because 'i was an interesting case' normal labour, progressing nicely didnt need a dr at all but he was deternined to be involved (ds3) in the end head.midwife came and told him to go.away. Vaginal exinations are not always necessary and in a normal labour a midwife can generally tell.how things are progressing without doing them, there are other physioligical signs a woman us getting near to actual delivery. Sometimes a woman having had pain relief, esp an epidural means more examinations may be necessary, this should still be explained, consent given and measures taken to maintain the womans modesty/dignity if that is what she wants ie a sheet over legs, curtain round the bed incase someone unexpectedly comes into.the room. When i was having a vaginal examination with ds1 someone came in and started reading the bloody dinner menu and asking me what i wanted! Ffs!

Of course you have the right to refuse consent to medical procedures! You also have the right to make an unwise decision, unless the medical professional can demonstrate that you lack capacity to make that decision (e.g. due to mental health issues or a learning disability, or because you are unconscious, but even then they cannot go against your previous descisions unless the situation has changed).

The doctor at my birth kept pressuring me to have an epidural and lie on my back to deliver. I refused. I am glad I did, it was the right decision for me. They could not enforce anything I did not want.

Piglet I asked to be examined and was refused, I knew I needed to push and got shouted at for it.

My point is, it's not always about getting the baby out.

I have refused extra scans and induction with subsequent pg - however in actual labour with my first I really didn't feel very empowered to refused or argue with hospital policy. DH wasn?t speaking up either as he felt he couldn't.

Well for me I guess it was. A ventouse definitely elected to get dd out fast as her heart rate dipping and she was going in distress. If I had refused she or we could have both died. They do internals to see how far your dilated. I would ever classify it as rape

I was told by the doctor when he examined me 'if it doesn't hurt you I'm not doing it properly' I was 4cms then.
I told the midwife that I did not want him back in the room at all. Luckily I delivered 20 mins later and didn't have him back in the room.