To think the 'stand your ground' law in America is horrendous.

[Loveweekends10]

I hope we never adopt that law which has led to an 8% increase in homicides in some American states.

I think its very easy to talk hypothetically.

In reality the situation is quite different.

You are not generally encountering this masked bogeyman type burglar figure but an individual, who looks like your son, or the guy in the paper shop.

You would honestly take someone's life rather than they took your possessions?

"I don't think I'd try and kill someone who was trying to nick our stuff. "

but the reality is that it's never going to be a straightforward choice.
Those who say they would kill to protect their stuff etc. are not saying they would kill for an ipod etc.
If someone approaches me on the street and says give me your wallet it would not be reasonable for me to kill them, I can say no etc.
The way it becomes a situation of wallet vs killing the other person is when the criminal brings in the use or threat of violence to execute their crime.
So he'll say give me your wallet or I'll stab you. At that point it may very well become reasonable or necessary to stab him or otherwise wound him in a way which may be fatal to protect my property and possibly myself.
It's not a case of hunting down and killing people who have stolen, but rather where a criminal forces someone to use force or violence to protect their property.
As I've said throughout, I'm not going to take the lottery of coming off worse, I'm just going to give up the wallet. But if I or someone else was brave/stupid (delete as appropriate) enough to take on the would be robber then I would support them in the use of force as was necessary to protect themselves and their property to revent the commission of a crime.

"You would honestly take someone's life rather than they took your possessions? "

not if it's a straight up choice. but if they put me in a position where it was a straight choice of allowing them to rob me or me using force to protect myself and property then I'd rather the second one happened.
However I wouldn't risk my own life or endanger my family for the sake of possesions so it would be for that reason that I'd let them take my stuff. Nothing to do with valuing their life over my possessions.

I agree Ruby and Cathy. I can honestly say I would give away my possessions eagerly if it came to the choice of that, or killing an intruder. Someone who's probably young/ desperate/ on drugs or whatever.

If I was unlucky enough to wake to an intruder in my home, my first thought would be the dc. I would barricade myself and them in a room with a phone if at all possible.

Since I have a massive (but gorgeous) dog who barks his head off if a fly lands on the window, I'm likely to be able to do this :)

I was robbed at a cashpoint in London some years ago. The bloke told me to give him the money, he also said he had a knife, I don't know whether he did or not. At no point during the incident did I feel like the correct response would have been to kill him.

• badly phrased post using "straight up choice" twice. The first choice I meant that would I rather take someones life than come back to my car and find my wallet stolen = no but if someone entered my home and made it a confrontaional situation I'd rather they were dead than simply walked off with my possessions.

Anyway, and so to bed, trying not to have nightmares about intruders who would be sorely disappointed by the haul from our house

Get a dog, not a gun

"The bloke told me to give him the money, he also said he had a knife, I don't know whether he did or not. At no point during the incident did I feel like the correct response would have been to kill him. "

And that's fine for you.
All I'm saying that if someone like the robber in your situation threatened someone with a potentially fatal attack and they were put in a situation that the forcde necessary to protect themselves or their possessions resulted in their death then they would be protected by the law.
Because the reality is not that the person will automatically kill the potential assailant.
They may still refuse, it would then be the choice of the criminal to either try to make good on their threats and attempt to stab the victim at which point they may use fatal force to protect themselves.
Or they may think this isn't worth it and move on.

I think Cathycomehome did exactly the right thing at the cashpoint. I'd have done exactly the same.

If anyone came into my home to burgle me, when I can't afford insurance OR to replace the things, then I bloody well would use as much force as necessary to prevent the burglar from taking anything of mine or my children's, and I bloody well would use as much force as was necessary to get them out of my home where my children are, and to neutralise any possible risk from them towards my children or me.

They can choose to continue trying to burgle me while I use as much force as necessary to stop them and either eject them from my home or incapacitate them, or they can choose to retreat.

If they're stupid enough to try to rob me, then they'll get a shock. I certainly won't be compliant and handing them my bloody things that I can't afford to replace.

If they get killed on the course of me protecting my family and our possessions, that's their bloody lookout for trying to burgle my home and not being sensible enough to retreat and fuck off out of my house WITHOUT my things as soon as they come across the mad old bat that I am!

as would i.
however if i knew of a way to use force to prevent the crime which was guarenteed not to lead to me being hurt then i'd use it.
the only reason i would not in reality use force is due to its potential to led to my own death or inury rather than the criminals

^^^
in response to sabrina

And if someone tried to rob me at the cashpoint, I'd have no choice but to fight, because what I get out of the cashpoint is my entire fortnight's food, gas and electricity money, and without that I would have no food, heat or light for my children.

So I wouldn't be able to do what a previous poster has done, because feeding my children and ensuring there is heat and light for them is more important.

Especially once Crisis loans stop. And Crisis loans are never enough to cover a full week's food, has and electricity, let alone a fortnight's.

Starving children, or the risk of ME getting stabbed...I'll take the risk myself, cheers!

SabrinaMulhollandJjones

'You're very defensive though Morloth.'

Am I? I don't feel particular defensive.

In the cashpoint scenario I probably would hand it over, but I couldn't care any less if someone else responded with violence that resulted in death. It is a risk you take when you decide to threaten someone.

I don't think people should just roll over and take it when threatened if they choose not to, any fault lies with the instigator.

America is a democracy, if enough people want the lgsw changed it will be.

I'm fairly passive and if someone mugged me I'd hand over my stuff, if I heard a burglar I'd go barricade myself in somewhere with DS. However, if someone braver/ less timid than me killed or beat up a burglar or a mugger I'd be on their side. I think when you choose to threaten to stab people at cashpoints/ steal from people's homes you don't really deserve the protection of the law.

I have a large, scary looking dog, which I personally prefer to the idea of keeping guns etc. As other posters have said, if there are more guns around, there will be more shootings - it's not rocket science.

I have no sympathy for intruders who are maimed or killed by householders defending their hone and family - the psychological effects of this violation of an individual's sanctuary can be considerable and long lasting. I respect other country's laws, but I believe we have the right balance in the UK.

Babymamaroon

Trayvon Martin was staying with his father WHO LIVES IN THE GATED COMMUNITY.

He went to the 7-11 to buy a soft drink and some skittles for his litle brother.

Zimmerman phoned 911 and was told officers were on the way and to stay put. He considered Trayvom to be acting suspiciously because he was 'walking leisurely'.

He got out of his car and shot Treyvon dead.

He was not arrested. The police said there was no case to answer, he had defended himself.

I'm glad I don't live where a school child can be shot for buying sweets and walking home.

I don't get the 'if you don't like the law, don't live there' argument. Apartide was defeated by international lobbying.

There are currently US sanctions against Iran and Cuba. Companies that do business with Isreal can't do business with many arabic countries.

Countries do not exist in isolaition any more. Malala Yousafzai's shooting has got international attention. Should we just shrug our shouldeers and say, "Well she wouldn't have been shot if she'd not written a blog", or should we condemn the Taliban?

I would defend my family with any weapon I had. I also wouldn't live in the UK again, I like to be in countries where threatening people and nicking their stuff is still socially unacceptable. And just to add, I wouldn't care if the person pointing a gun at my child had mental health issues or addiction, I would shoot them anyway.

The uK gun laws are hardly working, as long as it is an illegal accessory it seems to be fairly easy to get one.

Baby, kids get shot in te UK as well. Lobby your own failing mess of a country by all means but don't speak for the rest of us thanks.

How many of you on this thread actually live in America? Whilst you pat yourselves on your backs for being British (wtf?!!)?
US Gun laws may seem alien to you but, at the end of the day, unless youre living here, they're none of your frickin business!!

I have lived in the US and in Africa amongst other places.
I currently do not feel proud to be British, what to be proud of? The last time I lived there I was burgled so many times and never experienced such threatening behaviour even when I lived in Africa during civil unrest.
Sue there are some good things about all paces but the UK is not in my opinion the clever wise civilisation who should tell the rest of us how to live. You are still involved in an illegal war FFs

All I can say is I fear for kids on trick or treat nights with those laws in place. Especially the ones wearing the striped prison costumes. They will have no defence at all.
'Well he was dressed like a convict and he entered my property so I shot him'

Yes, because all Americans are thick and are just hoping to accidently shoot some kids.

Seriously? Did you just post that?