AIBU to expect my staff to work overtime or more than just 9-5

[TeeterTotter]

I manage a large team of 20 staff and I have two members of my team who refuse to do anything beyond the core hours in their contract. In at a set time, out the door right on the dot like clockwork.

If these staff members were junior I wouldn't expect more of them but they are both on a managerial salary of £41-£44k per year --I think at this level there is a general expectation that you're generally more engaged and committed and that you'll work at home or stay late when needed. I also feel times have changed and in these dicey financial times people are giving more to their jobs than ever. In a perfect world no one would have extra work or overtime, but that's just not the way things are in 2012!

One of the staff members is a mom to 2 kids and she says it is impossible for her to stay late (due to childcare commitments) or to do work on weekends (she's too busy with the kids); the other is a single guy who has no appetite to do more than he's contracted to do.

I find this situation very irksome, especially because I have two kids but do a lot of late nights and work from home, which I think is expected at my level.

DP thinks I need to stop imposing my protestant work ethic on everyone I work with, but I feel these staff members aren't pulling their weight. I'm not a slavedriver but I expect more. Are I reasonable or are my views skewed? I would really welcome the opinion of others.

I have no problems with working extra hours when there's a tight deadline and have done so - everyone in my team does, and none of us earn more than about £27K. We're lazy public sector workers, by the way .

I do think your original OP was not that clear about your expectations, but I think YANBU to expect people on £40k to step up when there are deadlines. As long as it isn't all the time, and there's flexibility at other time, there isn't an issue.

Then you need to shuffle the work force.

In my work, the boss was a bitch a few years ago for doing this. She overhauled the complete work force, starting by dropping the hours on the quieter departments and relocating the hours to the busier departments.

The work force now runs more smoothly, and when we are short staff we can handle it a lot better.

Why are you guys being so mean to me?..............I won't be posting again

How whiney?!

You asked if YABU and the majority think you are. Sorry if you dont like that but you did ask. And really, your tone makes you sound like a stroppy five year old "You're all HORRRRID!"

Is this the kind of leadership staff want?

You are not there to give them leadership, that is the job of the MD/CEO. Your job is to manage the work that your department has, making sure that it is given to the appropriate member of staff and completed to the appropriate standard. That may mean disciplinaries, support, appraisals etc but you are not their "leader"! I think your issue is that you have bigged yourself up a bit too much here and need to rethink your own attitude.

In your work what I would do is a split shift if possible, do 6am till 2pm then another shift 2pm till 10pm.

That way there is alway people there to hand.

Bogeyface, what nonsense.

As a CEO I expected my directors to lead their teams and I expected their managers to lead their teams.

I don.t think people are being mean. If there is work over and above the working day, then you need to organise things so that it can be done. Offering your staff flexibility and the tools to do the job out of hours would be the way to go, rather than whinging on here about them.

I work in public transport. I will not for any circumstances work after my shift, I leave exactly on time even if that means that my station is unmanned. this is a mixture of hatred of the job and also just preferring to be at home!

She is talking about "Leadership" which is your job. The hierarchy is clear. You at the top, Directors, managers, supervisors, staff.

She is a manager. That clue is in the name.
Your Directors, again, the clue is in the name.

Pleased to know that my approx 45hr weeks count as long hours on mn. I was always under the impression people worked very long hours.

YABU

And working weekends - who the hell does that any longer? Work life balance is far more important.

You either need to employ more staff, or get your people working more efficiently. Clearly you are a poor manager, and highly inefficient if you are needing to put in loads of overtime.

Bogeyface, WOW!
I'd hate to work for you.

sound of businesses not coming to Britain...

My employer for example, gives us laptops with VPN log in, and also offers the latest Windows Office release (for free) for home PCs. And as on a management grade, I receive a (small) discretionary payment on top of my salary to pay for extra "expenses" like parking, dry cleaning, buying coffee for visitors, biscuits for the team etc.

Haven't read whole thread so apologies if this has been covered. A lot of contracts at this salary level will say something like "38 hours a week, or whatever it takes to get the job done/discharge duties etc".

I can't bear a minimalist attitude - surely if you are doing your job, it doesn't always conveniently finish at 5.30 and if you are engaged in interesting work, chances are you will run over by 10 mins from time to time.

As a minimum I would reflect their attitude in their perf reviews and pay awards and give the rewards to people who are going over and above. I would also be inflexible about going early for Dr etc!

Teeter - I work in Belgium. The office is empty by 5pm. in France they even more extreme about working hours. The presenteeism culture in the UK is truly dreadful.

Agee with grovel - I hope bogey face doesn't have a position of responsibility in any company. Everyone can be a leader - it is about having a position of influence over others, so that might be a peer influence on the rest of the team, a works council or indeed a role called "manager".

Your second post sounds much more reasonable, but I still can't see how someone with kids to pick up can easily organise the last minute childcare.

In your place, I'd be looking at whether there's anything systematic going wrong and leading to last minute panics. Can you anticipate them ahead of time and get the input you need from senior people in the day? Can your senior people advise on the phone/email from home? Can they work later in the evening? Can you provide flexibility at any other time for goodwill? Can you help with practical childcare solutions?

I think you have to accept that these senior people can't be as flexible as you'd like for various reasons, and work around that as much as you can.

to answer the OP - when i was on £20k and young and enthusiastic i had a boss on much more who was not career motivated and only did the minimum. it frustrated me but i got a lot of experience i wouldnt' have if he'd been doing his job better and i have progressed much further in my career than he ever did. it's just how things are - some people put in more and eventually get more out, others put in the minimum contractual and stay still.

OP hasn't said whether any of her staff fail to do their jobs adequately. Seems not to like the look of it while not dealing with thesubstance.

:o

Teeter - I used to work in a huge blue chip, one of the biggest companies in the world.
The presenteeism culture in the UK was the worst across the whole company.

Our European colleagues were out of the door way ahead of us even once you factored timezones.

Now - if this is actually a racist thread in disguise...?

hermione - yes, 10-15 minutes here and there - but not regularly working 2 hours into the evening and over weekends - that merely demonstrates incompetence on the part of staff and management.
Just because someone is in the office, doesn't mean they are going over and above. Really hope you are not senior and in an actual position to influence pay etc!!

Op, I hope for your sake neither one of your staff nor one of your superiors recognises you from this thread

If you are for real, I suggest you ask to get it deleted or I see a) a grievance and/or b) a disciplinary procedure looming for you

Hence my pithy "it shows"

A leader is someone who has what it takes to make people go out of their way for her.

So, from the sounds of it, OP . . .

Hermione, you need to read the thread.

One of the employees has children to collect from nursery so, even if the work is interesting, it isn't convenient for her to stay beyond 5.30pm.

When do expect your staff go to the doctor if they can't leave early on the odd occasion?

I run my own company actually, and I prefer the "give and take" attitude.

Stay late at an event, dont come in until lunchtime the next day. Do I count hours? No not really. I am paying for the job to be done and as long as that is the case then I dont mind if someone finishes an hour early.

FWIW, I quit working for other people because of the shitty attitudes of some people in upper management. The companies that didnt have that shitty attitude had committed staff of which I was one. It didnt surprise me when I found out that the worst offenders company was a byword for high staff turnover.

You dont want to work for me? Fine, dont. I'll stick with people that can actually do the job in the time allowed thanks!

I lost my point there! I lead the company, I lead my staff. When I was a department manager, I managed them, I didnt lead them. I implemented the leadership decisions made by those who ran the company, IE the MD, CEO or B o D.