AIBU to expect my staff to work overtime or more than just 9-5

[TeeterTotter]

I manage a large team of 20 staff and I have two members of my team who refuse to do anything beyond the core hours in their contract. In at a set time, out the door right on the dot like clockwork.

If these staff members were junior I wouldn't expect more of them but they are both on a managerial salary of £41-£44k per year --I think at this level there is a general expectation that you're generally more engaged and committed and that you'll work at home or stay late when needed. I also feel times have changed and in these dicey financial times people are giving more to their jobs than ever. In a perfect world no one would have extra work or overtime, but that's just not the way things are in 2012!

One of the staff members is a mom to 2 kids and she says it is impossible for her to stay late (due to childcare commitments) or to do work on weekends (she's too busy with the kids); the other is a single guy who has no appetite to do more than he's contracted to do.

I find this situation very irksome, especially because I have two kids but do a lot of late nights and work from home, which I think is expected at my level.

DP thinks I need to stop imposing my protestant work ethic on everyone I work with, but I feel these staff members aren't pulling their weight. I'm not a slavedriver but I expect more. Are I reasonable or are my views skewed? I would really welcome the opinion of others.

I do think the following would have got almost as vehement a YABU as this thread has

"I work as a manager in a smallish business, on £45k. The recession means we're operating pretty close to the bone but staying above water. Holding on to clients is really important.

If we're working to a tight deadline and getting something to a client the next day, AIBU to get up and walk out at 5pm, meaning the client deadline will probably be missed and we risk losing the client? I think my work life balance is more important than staying an extra hour, but my boss seems to think we should all be 'pulling together' on occasions like this."

Cue huge swathes of YABUs, interspersed with 'you should count yourself lucky to have a job's.

In light of your second post YANBU

Out of interest were you involved in these employess being promoted ?

YABU
Why should they work for nothing?
If there are not enough hours/people to do the job right, then get more staff.

I have spent years of my life doing unpaid overtime in various jobs, and I have also worked in places where everyone work exactly contracted hours. When it came to the redundancy packages or people getting laid off, neither thing made the slightest difference - the bosses laid off whoever they wanted to, martyrs and clockwatchers.

I have been treated like shit in places where I worked my arse off doing extra time, and have also been treated like a really valuable member of staff when I have left on the dot. Its the managerial culture that is the issue.

Ime, the ones that make a big deal out of staying behind are often the ones who fart about so much during the day that they have to stay behind in order to get their work done. The ones that leave on time are the ones that make sure they have got all their work done before they leave.

The person in particular I remember from my last job before I started my business was always wandering around the office "talking a good job" (as my dad puts it) without actually achieving anything. Then he would always make sure everyone knew that he was staying late each night as he had so much work to do. In the end he was moved to a lower paid and less responsible position as it was decided that as he couldnt fit in the same work as his colleagues in the same time, the job must be beyond him.

Being the one that always takes work home or stays late doesnt always indicate a better worker.

my dh when employed was consistently late home from work and done weekends (without extra pay)
He was salaried and never got over time, he had a work load and if he left early it would sit their and get bigger and bigger.
He now does the same job as a self employed director and works about 50 hours a week, the only difference is he is charging more for his time so doesn't mind as much.
I can understand why people wouldn't want to work longer than contracted especially if their is no benefit to themselves (as I said growing work load was always an incentive for my dh because it made his work more stressful.)
Its not fair that others are picking up the slack for the two that do not want to work extra though.
When I was nursing I never left a shift until everything I needed to do wad completed and I never got over time.

LaQueen, I think that your situation is slightly different. I equate that to my H's job in that if there is an emergency, as priniciple key holder he has to be the one to go in. That is part of what he is paid extra for, and the same for you.

I work alot longer hours than my paid employee (hey, only one but its early days!), and he earns more per hour than me as a result, but as it is my own business and I am doing about 7 different jobs, I accept that. I wouldnt accept having to stay behind at work on a regular basis because the company either didnt manage the work loads correctly or employ enough staff.

I agree that going the extra mile when needed works well for everyone, but I am wary of anyone who equates staying late with a good work ethic. In the case of my ex colleague, it was the exact opposite.

Well, the staff that work for your DH are very fortunate. Not all bosses are as enlightened...

LaQueen...

I once stayed over half an hour late (narrowly missing my child-care time limit) because we had an abandoned child in the library. Two of us had to wait while we sorted out with Social Services what would happen next. Leaving me in the ridiculous situation of nearly having my childcare report ME to social services for not picking my child up. How stupid would that have been?

To add insult to injury, my bike chain broke on the way to work the next morning making me a whole ten minutes late. My manager asked me to make up the time in my lunch-hour having conveniently "forgotten" the incident the night before.

(I often work outside my hours to help my team, but I would not expect anyone else to do so, nor would I expect to incur extra child-care costs to do so.)

gettingeasier - have only been in the job for a year and inherited staff.

If there were no fools like the OP, family life would be infinitely better.

Just because you are prepared to work hours you are not paid for, don't expect others to fall into the trap.

You are being unreasonable.

You've only been in your current role for a year ?

It shows.

I leave on time - to do the school run. I will log on from home later if necessary. I also check email if sick, on days off etc. I think the presenteeism thing is a big issue. I can work literally anywhere so it is not generally an issue. With roles that are office based, I think you need to look at better ways of managing things.

Why are you guys being so mean to me? 'It shows?' You don't know me and have no idea what kind of a manager I am or what my career has been like.

I go back to my original post and ask: Have you never worked with or for with people who are jobsworths? Would you be satisfied to sit in an office being paid 20k a year with a senior member of staff on 45k doing the minimum they have to and never going the distance? Is this the kind of leadership staff want?

Honestly, I give up. I've had some good advice - thanks to all and keep on posting but I won't be posting again.

would have thought at £45k it was quite normal for it to be 'as many hours as the job requires', it is in my field.

YANBU to a certain extent... I am on a similar salary, in a management role. My contract (and everyone else's above a certain grade) states I work the hours required to fulfill the duties of my role, but I will be remunerated to 35 hours per week. Most of us do nearer to 50 on a regular basis.. Just what the job requires. I tend to only be in the office 8.30-5.30, as I have a lengthy commute, but I regularly catch up at home, later in the evening, or at weekends.

I think, OP, that the tone of some of the comments indicates just how unreasonable some posters feel you are being. You asked if you were being unreasonable, and it is being pointed out to you just how unreasonable people think you are!

Surely the ones going above and beyond the call of duty would be recognised for it though- either at performance review times or possibly just through ordering a pizza for everyone in the long hours?

Also, why isn't it in the contract that extra hours would be expected where necessary, so they can legitamately be pulled up on it? I'm in Engineering, and even WITH that written in, we generally get time off in lieu. Though the company I work for has won awards for being good with staff...

I think we're only getting half of the story here.

Someone leaving 5.30pm to pick their kids up isn't a jobsworth.

It is very sad, that we live in a world where everyone is expected to work unpaid overtime just to get the job done.