AIBU to expect my staff to work overtime or more than just 9-5

[TeeterTotter]

I manage a large team of 20 staff and I have two members of my team who refuse to do anything beyond the core hours in their contract. In at a set time, out the door right on the dot like clockwork.

If these staff members were junior I wouldn't expect more of them but they are both on a managerial salary of £41-£44k per year --I think at this level there is a general expectation that you're generally more engaged and committed and that you'll work at home or stay late when needed. I also feel times have changed and in these dicey financial times people are giving more to their jobs than ever. In a perfect world no one would have extra work or overtime, but that's just not the way things are in 2012!

One of the staff members is a mom to 2 kids and she says it is impossible for her to stay late (due to childcare commitments) or to do work on weekends (she's too busy with the kids); the other is a single guy who has no appetite to do more than he's contracted to do.

I find this situation very irksome, especially because I have two kids but do a lot of late nights and work from home, which I think is expected at my level.

DP thinks I need to stop imposing my protestant work ethic on everyone I work with, but I feel these staff members aren't pulling their weight. I'm not a slavedriver but I expect more. Are I reasonable or are my views skewed? I would really welcome the opinion of others.

Know what you mean bogeyface, have known a couple of those too! But sadly for some of us there're others who are both good and willing to do whatever the employer wants, darn them!

This is why I work for myself, then I can chuck a sickie and my boss always falls for it :o

Good plan

Its not all good, cos when I have a deadline coming up, the bitch keeps me chained to my laptop!

Actually, flexitime is a great invention and would largely resolve the OP's problem.

My DP can't stay late to do extra hours for free, as he has a second job to get to, just to keep a roof over our heads. YABVU Actually, there are all sorts of reasons why people can't.
And why should they anyway? I own a business with several staff, they get paid for every hour they do, I would never expect them to do hours for free, as a way of keeping their job in a dodgy climate. Wrong just wrong.

YABU if they have childcare commitments and they are already doing their contracted hours.

YABVVU

What ever happened to work / life balance?? I'm glad you're not my boss!

(for the record, I put extra hours in over my contracted hours quite often, but when I feel I need to, not due to the unreasonable expectations of an unreasonable boss!

If you want them to work extra hours then pay them for it!

If they are shirkers then get rid of 'em. If they work hard during contracted hours then yes I think it's unreasonable to expect them to work unpaid on top of that. Maybe they need to be contracted to complete tasks rather than hours.

I work in the public sector. part-time, hourly paid. No bonuses. No pay rise for the last few years. However, during that time I have always worked above and beyond my contracted hours. We do not get overtime. Which means that for the past three years ( at least - I only started keeping a record three years ago), I have 'given' my boss the equivalent of around two months work, for free, in each of those years. Do we get any acknowledgement of that? No. Not even a card at Christmas. And now it seems to be accepted that 'Sayit is always here late,' so can always do a bit extra to help out. Except that this year my timetable gives me no time whatsoever to do any of the admin side of my job during my paid hours. It has now become expected that I will fulfill that aspect of my responsibilities during MY OWN TIME. and guess what? This worm has turned. I have decided it is not reasonable for my boss to expect and assume that I will happily work for nothing. So I am not doing it. And when I am asked why some parts of my job are not getting done, I am telling them that it is because they are not paying me for enough hours to do all the work they expect of me. It is not that I am lazy during the rest of the time. It is purely that management have failed to realise that if they want me to work full time, they should actually pay me a full time salary and stop relying on my goodwill to get the job done on my time rather than theirs.

YABU.They don't have to work more than thier vontracted hours and as others have said if the work can't get finished in those hours there is something wrong. I do spmetimes work on in my job as I'm a support worker to adults with learning disabilities and occansionly there is an emergancy when the next member of staff gets held up or one of the tenants ( it's in independent supported libing house) needs extra attention, But my manager wouldn't expect anyne to work on and if any of us do then we are told to put the extra hours down ans we are paid for them, There are staff who are unable to to extra hours and they would not be forced to do them.

Oh boy, is this a subject close to my heart. I have worked for the same company for nearly 7 years. When I joined I was about to get married and had no DC. I used to work long hours to get the job done which, because of my personal situation, was no issue.

Fast-forward a few years and I had DD and returned to work full-time with two days a week at home. I am a manager and we employed a Directir based in NYto manage the Uk and US functions. From day one of this appointment, the long hours started (12/14 hour days with the expectation of being available during NY hours. Within three months I had a miscarriage and last summer, had a breakdown. My home time was never my own; if the Director could not reach me on my mobile, I would be called on my home phone. I would be bathing DD and hear my Directorask me to call back ASAP for trivial stuff. I was called during holidays and expected to work at weekends.

I cracked one afternoon after a week of 14 hour days and then being told that I needed to be more committed. I was signed off by my doctor for two weeks and put on medication. It won't surprise you to her that my Director was still calling me during this time out and I was told on my return that I had let the team down....

Am currently on mat leave with DS but my attitude to long hours is pretty muc 'screw it'.

yabu. If you want them to work longer than their contracted hours then you need to review their contracts and their wages.

YabvvvvU! A friend of mines husband hung himself a few years back. He was a manager, and slowly the 'extra hour here and there' turned into never seeing his children, never having a weekend off. He snapped, spent 6 months in hospital and hung himself when he came out.
I have another friend who works their ass off for their company, takes work home every day, and has ongoing health problems... They too have just snapped under the pressure and are now off for the foreseeable future.
There are more important things in life. If there is so much work that you need to hav all 3 of you doing overtone, hire someone else.
Money grabbing companies who don't give a shit about people lives wind me right up

If I'm not being paid, I'm not there. I have a life, thanks. And a responsible job.

I should add 'jobs'. To pay for the childcare (and she charges if you are late)

So to sumarise: this being MN, there's no middle ground where someone in a senior position might occasionally be expected to hang around after 5pm and a few seconds to finish an important time-critical task.

It's either 'I work to the exact minute my contract states and not a second longer' or 'I was expected to work 25hrs per day 8 days per week and even that wasn't enough'.

Just so we're clear then, anyone in a more senior position is an utter cunt for expecting the tiniest but of flexibility on the odd occasion.

Shelley -

When the nhs paid me a reasonable wage I would stay late if necessary. Now they expect us to work with no hint of a pay rise or a cost of living increase so I am working for 5% less a year . Oh, and they never thank you or pay overtime. They can get lost!

Elkie I am sorry but the whole "payrise in the public sector" thing really pisses me off.

I dont know anyone in the private sector who has had a payrise in the last 3 years, and as for a cost of living increase, that is laughable!

Thats how it is for the rest of the population you know! Why do public sector workers think that they deserve automatic pay rises that the rest of us dont get? And dont say that its because you dont earn much, because my H's salary has been 19k (yes nineteen) for the past 3 years, despite working stupid hours. Try living on that!

My husband works in the public sector and for years happily worked more than contracted hours....loves his job. Fastforward to having 3 under fives. I will not accept him doing anything he isnt paid for. They either pay him the extra hours or he takes the time back.

I run a small business in which I now have to employ somebody, essentially to cover for myself, to let me be home for the children. As I see it, if he works unpaid hours, ie, hours that he could be home providing child care ,(allowing me to work and cut employee hours), then in effect my very small business is subsidising the operation of a multi million pound government body. NO WAY. I absolutely insist that he works contracted hours , or gets the time back. I swear otherwise I would invoice his employer for MY time.

As somebody else said the extra hours people do can add up to MONTHS of unpaid work over a year. Employers state that they expect flexibility in employees.

OK, here is some flexibility along the lines of what employers expect.

"Dear Employee, As per your contract we will pay you for a 37 hour week. For this, you will be expected to work 50 hours per week"

This apparently is perfectly reasonable.Consider the converse.

Dear Employer, I now intend to be present in work for 24hours per week. I do of course expect that I will still be in receipt of payment for 37 hours, as per my contract."

Unlikely I suspect.

If an employer is not prepared to pay somebody for hours that they dont work, why on earth would they expect people to work hours that they are not paid for.

Oh yes, good old flexibilty . Bit of a one way street that.

Elkie, I have to agree with Bogey - I have had no pay rise (private sector) for nearly 4 years now, I can't even begin to work out what that pay decrease actually amounts to. The lack of payrise is shit for everyone, regardeless of what sector they work in, and I definitely agree that my attitude nowadays is that I work hard during my contracted hours but that it is, they don't pay me enough to work over - but the private sector has been suffering from these real-term pay decreases for several years more than the public sector has. And with no unions to back them and fight for increases.

95% of private sector workers are not fat-cat bankers and have been suffering from the recession for several more years than the public sector.

(Can you tell this is a bit of a bug bear of mine?!)

I wasn't aiming to start a fight, as it is I earn 16k a year for the nhs. My husband earns £18k a year for the council. My sister is the only one who works in the private sector and she got a £1500pa pay rise. As far as hours go I am in early every day, have never had a lunch break in 10years and am expected to work through. So much for gold-plated! dons hard hat

Not staring a fight either I just have several friends who all work in the public sector and have had guaranteed payrises over the past few years, thanks to pay scales, and who have all had a good moan about how 'hard' the recession has been for them. Er... no, no it hasn't been actually. It might be now, but it wasn't three years ago when half my company was being made redundant!

But most people's jobs suck one way or another, don't they?!

As far as hours go I am in early every day, have never had a lunch break in 10years and am expected to work through.

You do know that's illegal, right? Just take your lunch break.