AIBU to expect my staff to work overtime or more than just 9-5

[TeeterTotter]

I manage a large team of 20 staff and I have two members of my team who refuse to do anything beyond the core hours in their contract. In at a set time, out the door right on the dot like clockwork.

If these staff members were junior I wouldn't expect more of them but they are both on a managerial salary of £41-£44k per year --I think at this level there is a general expectation that you're generally more engaged and committed and that you'll work at home or stay late when needed. I also feel times have changed and in these dicey financial times people are giving more to their jobs than ever. In a perfect world no one would have extra work or overtime, but that's just not the way things are in 2012!

One of the staff members is a mom to 2 kids and she says it is impossible for her to stay late (due to childcare commitments) or to do work on weekends (she's too busy with the kids); the other is a single guy who has no appetite to do more than he's contracted to do.

I find this situation very irksome, especially because I have two kids but do a lot of late nights and work from home, which I think is expected at my level.

DP thinks I need to stop imposing my protestant work ethic on everyone I work with, but I feel these staff members aren't pulling their weight. I'm not a slavedriver but I expect more. Are I reasonable or are my views skewed? I would really welcome the opinion of others.

Yabu, as pp said, it is exploitation. If their productivity is good during their contracted working hours, you've no business complaining. It's their time, not yours.

Yabu.

Eh?

YABU

"my protestant work ethic"

Wtf has religion got to do with someone's attitude to work?

It's people like you that make it necessary for strict employee rights tbh. You can't depend on businesses to do the right thing. There is no loyalty from employers these days. I don't know why you'd expect it from your employees.

YABU. If they're doing their contracted hours, then they are fulfilling their obligation. If you want them to work more hours, offer them overtime pay. Or hire the correct amount of people to do the work required.

The UK is the only country where people are expected to work for free. It is disgusting.

Yabu

It is your job as a manager to delegate work appropriately and if your staff are unable to achieve their expected tasks then you are doing something wrong.

It's 40k, not 240k.

In my country managers can, and do, go to prison for making people to overtime. It means there's an extra job going.

Beware section 8 of the human rights act...

Staying late does not equal higher productivity.

Unless, you are talking about the occasional late to meet a pressing deadline then YABVU.

I got so sick of this type of attitude I am now freelance and get paid for every single minute...

If you have 18 members of staff regularly doing overtime they are not paid for, then there is something wrong.

Either, you dont employ enough staff, or the staff are unable to structure their work, or they are unhappily working long hours because they are worried that their jobs are in danger if they dont. Neither is good.

And in any event, your own view is outdated. In addition, you are not setting a very good example if not even you at your level, show that you are not able to complete your tasks in the set working hours.

Yabu. I agree with your dh.

Your DH is correct.

Would you want to get rid of some daft woman because she got pregnant too?

Such a crappy attitude OP.
I work overtime for the extra money BUT that's my choice and its during school hours.
My DH works a 60 hour week for no extra pay.
It's shitty. And affects family life.

Of course YABU. Obviously if there is an enormous deadline once in a blue moon than it might be ok to ask people to stay late or work from home, but other than that - they are working their contracted hours.

I almost want to offer a ...

YABU to expect it.
They are paid for their contracted hours.

YABU, on my death bed I might look back at my life and think I wish I had spent more time with my family, under no circumstances would I even consider that I should have done more hours at work.

Spend some more time with your kids and don't worry so much about work.

YANBU - I think at that level, it's perfectly reasonable to expect a degree of flexibility in terms of hours worked, especially at busy times - that's the job! When you have a mangerial level of responsibility, I think it's absolutely fine, particularly if that is the general ethic where you work. I can't remember the last time I only worked my core hours - that's just how it works when you achieve a more senior level.

You can't make them work longer hours, but I totally understand why it frustrates you, and would certainly be taken into account in future performance reviews - it certainly is at my place. Not just working longer hours of course - the amount & quality of work that you do too, is always an emphasis on working smarter, not longer!

DH's firm has the attitude that if you're doing more work than you're paid for:
either:

1. They've given you too much-please talk to management
2. or You're not doing it efficiently,

They also say that doing more than your hours (roughly 9-5:30 daily) is bad for morale and work production. The directors will quite happily tell them to go home if they think you're doing too much.

Great firm but also very successful and have, as far as I know never missed a deadline, and don't end up sitting around without work either.

Where I work when you get onto that kind of salary, your contract states "Reasonable hours to do the job, minimum of 37.5" and there is an expectation that if you need to work over to get the job done that you do it.

I have a lot of sympathy for your colleague who has children as I have two small ones and sometimes it can be impossible to work over. However, I am like you and will work over and weekends if things need to get done.

It may not come as a surprise that when we started to restructure and had the first round of redundancies that seems to happen once a year now, it was the people who clockwatched for no good reason who went out of the door first.

£40k is hardly senior though, is it?

YABU for all the reasons others have stated. I'm also a bit curious as to why you've posted this before 5pm. Shouldn't you be working?

YANBU at that level of pay.

It is right that you should try set them tasks which average out at their contracted hours over a year but you can certainly expect some unpaid overtime when business is hectic (quarter ends etc).

YABU.
I'm so glad your'e not my boss.

If you expect them to work extra hours without additional payment without any notice, are you happy for them to come in a couple of hours late or leave early without any notice when there isn't much work on?

YABU given the way you have presented it - which is all about why they should work extra because there aren't many jobs out there. I work plenty outside my contracted hours, but it is my goodwill I am giving, and I expect my employer to show me goodwill in return, which they do. Equally, I work quickly and accurately, and get irritated by being judged a slacker by people who get less done in a longer time and are therefore still at their desk when I leave.