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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU to expect my staff to work overtime or more than just 9-5

371 replies

TeeterTotter · 15/10/2012 16:48

I manage a large team of 20 staff and I have two members of my team who refuse to do anything beyond the core hours in their contract. In at a set time, out the door right on the dot like clockwork.

If these staff members were junior I wouldn't expect more of them but they are both on a managerial salary of £41-£44k per year --I think at this level there is a general expectation that you're generally more engaged and committed and that you'll work at home or stay late when needed. I also feel times have changed and in these dicey financial times people are giving more to their jobs than ever. In a perfect world no one would have extra work or overtime, but that's just not the way things are in 2012!

One of the staff members is a mom to 2 kids and she says it is impossible for her to stay late (due to childcare commitments) or to do work on weekends (she's too busy with the kids); the other is a single guy who has no appetite to do more than he's contracted to do.

I find this situation very irksome, especially because I have two kids but do a lot of late nights and work from home, which I think is expected at my level.

DP thinks I need to stop imposing my protestant work ethic on everyone I work with, but I feel these staff members aren't pulling their weight. I'm not a slavedriver but I expect more. Are I reasonable or are my views skewed? I would really welcome the opinion of others.

OP posts:
Shakirasma · 15/10/2012 16:52

I agree with your DH. You cannot force them to do more than their contracted hours and they have made it clear they are unable/unwilling to do so.

Accept that you can't do anything about it so you don't stress over it, but of course this will be taken into account should they wish to progress their career, or if they ever need their employer to do them any favours.

Shakirasma · 15/10/2012 16:53

Oops I forgot. YABU to expect it, but YANBU to want them to.

ValiumQueen · 15/10/2012 16:53

YABU. If they are contracted to work certain hours, it is their good will you are relying on to work outside those hours. Especially the lady with the kids. If you want people to work different hours, you need to write it into their contracts from the outset.

I am absolutely amazed you even need to ask.

BonVoyageCharlieBrown · 15/10/2012 16:53

Erm... You are kinda being a bit unreasonable. If I could, I would stay late at work but if you've booked childcare and have to pick them up by a certain time its a dash to get them as it is.

I always get my work done plus more in the hours I'm contracted.

I know people who fanny about all day not doing a great deal, then stay late to claim overtime. How is that good for business?

Sassybeast · 15/10/2012 16:53
Biscuit

Are you my boss? People have lives. Despite the fact that you don't Wink

SlightlySuperiorPeasant · 15/10/2012 16:54

YABU. Any work over their contracted hours is basically them working for free. Why should they work for free at the expense of their family or leisure time?

pmcblonde · 15/10/2012 16:55

It depends on the contract you have really. Is it '38 hours a week' or 'on average 38 hours a week'?

You are being unreasonable to expect everyone to be happy with the same work/life balance that works for you.

If they are doing everything they are contracted to do then (i.e working properly and effectively during the contracted hours) then you can't expect them to do more.

porcamiseria · 15/10/2012 16:55

yanbu

thats all, yanbu

Woozley · 15/10/2012 16:56

I would expect them to stay if something important needed finishing, and generally not to be loafing about and not finishing their work during the time they are meant to be working, but just because it is a recession is not a reason to exploit people and it should not be a regular thing, they should be able to do their jobs in their contracted hours.

I also feel times have changed and in these dicey financial times people are giving more to their jobs than ever.

Yes, many many people are flogging their guts out for employers, to the detriment of their health and family life or life in general outside work. It is not a healthy thing for society, especially when so many people are unemployed. If more work needs doing, employ more people.

ZombTEE · 15/10/2012 16:56

YABU if their job can't be done in their contracted hours, there is something wrong with the structure of the job.

So I have always believed, no matter my level.

PinkFairyDust · 15/10/2012 16:57

Why should they work for free?

Your boss do what you like but they do thier jobs within the time frame you have given them. End of

How would you feel if your boss kept wanting you to work an extra few hours for free??!

maybenow · 15/10/2012 16:57

YABU - some people have other things in their lives that mean they want to work when they're paid to work and not other times. It might be family in the sense of children or elderly parents or being carer for a spouse, or a serious hobby like high level sport or writing. This is absolutely their right so long as they are doing what they are paid to do when they're paid to be there. They will probably not progress and shouldn't expect promotion or pay rises but then they probably dont' expect them either.

Businesses need to staff themselves for the amount of work they take on and not rely on people doing more out of sense of duty or desire to get ahead and certainly not out of guilt.

catgirl1976 · 15/10/2012 16:57

YANBU

You get paid a manager salary and the expecatation is you work when needed

I used to work double my contracted 35 hours pre DS for no extra pay and now work maybe 50 whilst still being paid for the 35

Maybe I am a mug but in my company you dont get the bonuses and the pay rises if you don't put the hours in - its just expected and if you don't want to do it there are plenty of people who do and will

NatashaBee · 15/10/2012 16:57

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Rilson · 15/10/2012 16:58

YABU to be so expectant. If they only want to do their contracted hours then you can't force them to do anymore than that if they don't want to.

Some people work to live,others live to work.

ExitPursuedByAaaaaarGhoul · 15/10/2012 16:58

I can fully appreciate what you are saying, but if the work cannot be done in the contracted hours then either the contract needs to be changed or you need to employ more people.

When I worked in advertising/pr there was a competition every day as to who could be last in the office. In my view, being in the office does not mean you are working in any useful way.

If they are achieving their targets then who are you to expect them to do more?

YABU

McHappyPants2012 · 15/10/2012 17:01

Yabu, if you want them to work extra pay for the overtime.

girlynut · 15/10/2012 17:01

It's reasonable to expect them to put the hours in when expected, assuming that you are offering flexible working and there will be some short days abd some longs days.

However, if you're expecting them to regularly work beyond their contracted hours out of loyalty to the company, then YABU.

Their priorities obviously changed when they had kids - it happens!

Woozley · 15/10/2012 17:01

Presenteeism is bollocks anyway, it should be about how efficient and good people are IN THE TIME THEY ARE THERE.

That's who I would be promoting, the efficient parent who has to leave at 5 on the dot, but who manages their workload well, not the person who loafs about all day then completes the bare minimum of work rather carelessly at 7pm.

Absy · 15/10/2012 17:01

Are they not completing all their work? Or getting behind on their work?

I freaking HATE this culture of "presentee-ism". If people are good, and managing their workload well, bar exceptional circumstances/instances or a team being hideously understaffed, people shouldn't have to hang around after their contractual hours appearing to do stuff, when in reality they're not. I actually was told by a family member (very successful, board member of very large, successful company by his mid thirties) that if he's managing a team and people are around for much longer than their contracted hours, it's a problem - either there's too much work and that needs to be dealt with, OR people are being inefficient and that needs to be dealt with.

MrsRajeshKoothrappali · 15/10/2012 17:01

YABU

You can't expect people to work for free - it just isn't how things work. Maybe if you paid them extra for overtime then they'll help out. Otherwise I don't see why they should.

Your contracted hours are your contracted hours.

The mum isn't 'busy' with her kids. She's looking after them - that's what mums do. She can't shove her kids in a cupboard and come and work for no extra money, what would be the point??

Pixieonthemoor · 15/10/2012 17:02

Goodness 9 to 5??? I thought that went out with the ark!! YANBU

Bonsoir · 15/10/2012 17:03

Maybe you should be managing your team differently? Stop rewarding people working overtime and reward productivity instead?

LFCisTarkaDahl · 15/10/2012 17:03

I think you have a very poor managerial style - instead of focusing on how good they are at their jobs you instead talk only about 'presenteeism' - everyone knows some twats hang around all day drinking coffee but are still there 'finishing up' at 8 - that's because they work inefficiently.

Studies show that people who work less hours like part-timers get much more done.

So do they do their work competently and professionally or are they standing around drinking tea and then fecking off at 4?

Dogsmom · 15/10/2012 17:03

If it's not contracted or mentioned in their interview then yabu however I do agree that it's common sense to expect a well paid managerial job to sometimes overrun.

My husband is a team leader and often works over, it is paid though, he thinks it shows that he is a hard worker and flexible and would go in his favour if he ever went for promotion.