To ask the MN jury to help me and DP solve an argument? (warning trivial)

[woopdiedoo]

DP came home from work and spotted a sweet wrapper left on the floor. It had been there since yesterday but I had forgotten to throw it away and hadn't been in that room today so didn't see it.

There is a rule that there is no eating in that room (his rule) but I sometimes let the DCs eat sweets, crisps in there.

We have just had a blazing row about it because he just left it there and told me to pick it up as I let the DCs eat in there and I'm at home all day anyway (SAHM with toddler) so should have dealt with it. I thought that he should because he'd seen it and even though I am a SAHM does not mean that I should do ALL housework and he should do none at all and I do not like being ordered to pick up rubbish as I am not a litter warden.

Who is being unreasonable?

If your DS is embarrassed about how messy his room is, couldn't he tidy it himself?

Rika's post is a good one. I wondered some of it myself, such as if you were to go back to work. OP's partner sounds like the sort who would then say well, I make more money than you do, so despite us both being out of the home for 40 hrs a week, you'll also be doing all of the housework.

He's not actually interested in an equal partnership, from the sound of it.

I'd like to meet the teenage boy who could give a living shit about the tidiness or not of his mate's bedroom, never mind his own! Your DH is warping the family thinking about tidiness ro the extent that he's making you all feel guilt where there is none and making you feel you're inadequate and a skank. I bet yourhouse is perfectly normal for one lived in by a toddler.

The way you describe him piling on another task, then another, when you DO achieve what he demands of you, is bery, very telling. A bug red flag for abuse. It's called moving the goalposts and basically means that you can never win, you will forever be failing him and losing. Failing and losing in his pathetic worldview of him having to be Mr Big, I mean. I don't think you are a failure or a loser, I think you're a bloody saint putting up with this shithead for so long.

Another thing to ponder - the way he sounds is as though he just sees you as a servant to make hisnlofe flow smoothly. When do you get to relax or have fun? Why is having a show home more important than your needs and interests? Sounds bloody sexist to me. Here's my Dh's take on housework: if he was single, he'd have to do 100% of his housework. So any reduction in that is a bonus to him! He doesn't see it as a male or female thing or a working for cash or parentwork thing either. Decent men don't.

I think you should leave him and here's why:

He sounds a lot like my exp. I had 2 school age children and a baby. He worked full time. He could not understand why the house wasn't spotless, he would ask me what I'd done all day, leave me lists of things that I should be doing, moan and critize and make me feel worthless. Everything was noticed, he would look at the pile of washing up and shake his head, he would want to know why there were toys on the floor, or the high chair wasn't scrubbed yet. He would sneer at me when I told him I'd been busy, that ds3 had been clingy, that I was tired. He would go mad about any mess that my older boys left around - they would scrape their plates into the bin and maybe the youngest would miss a little and get a couple of chips on the floor and wander off in a dream leaving them there - instead of thinking, great, he's scraped his plate, he would bitch and moan about the dropped chips. He was so negative about my contribution to the house.

He wouldnt do anything in the night as he had been at work all day, weekends were his time off. I didn't get time off cause I didn't have a proper job. He expected the house spotless because "the government are paying me child benefit to do all this stuff" I used to dread the key in the door, rushing around to try and tidy up before he came home. I felt guilty about spending time enjoying my baby because I was made to feel there were more important things I should be doing.

He hated me using Facebook or mn, or watching a film - wasting my time.

I left him. (this wasn't the main reason why but perhaps if I had left him for this reason I wouldn't have had to put up with the rest of his shite)

I feel so much happier. My house is a mess, but my head isn't. I cuddle my baby and play with him guilt free. I don't leave him Tory and moan for my attention because I am frantically trying to get things done. I live to my own rules and my time is my own, no interrogations, no demands, disappointing looks from anyone. You only live once and children grow so quickly, I want to enjoy them. I moan a lot about how fed up I am of being a single parent but this is a major benefit.

I bet this is just the tip of the iceberg about what your Dp is like. He doesn't respect you or what you do.

To add to SAHP, I could do a lot of work from home, as my work is often computer based.

I don't, because when DS is at home, and particularly when he was younger and before pre-school, I'd hardly get anything done.
Even with ex around.

YABVVVVVU, OP's DH.

Some of that definitely resonates with me dinosaurs.

Do men like this ever change? Will couples councelling help us?

I don't know. My ex and I would talk it over ever so often and sometimes he would partly agree with me and say that he was 'sure it could be difficult, but that I needed to be more organised/prioritise my time/ stop spoiling the baby/ teach my older dc how to be tidier/ be stricter with them/ that so and so kept her house tidy with 100 children and 2 broken legs" etc - the conversations would just turn into a full critique of me and my failings. He genuinely felt hard done by and believed that I was letting him down.

We had polar opinions on such basic things - he thought that bringing up children was about disapline and rules, providing a tidy home, keeping the dc quiet and well behaved. Nothing was ever enough. Children couldn't just be children. It didn't help that he wasn't the father of the eldest 2, he tried to hide it but they were an irritation, their mess, their noise etc.

I don't think counselling would have saved us, his lack of respect for women in general was and is a fundamental part of his make up. He truly thinks he is superior and deserves a spotless home and immaculate, dribble free child. Nothing I could have done would have been enough. And I decided that I should just stop trying, because for to long I had tried to do enough, tried to be the sort of mother and partner that he expected, hadn't put myself or my needs first since I met him. My children needed to come first, not have a stressed mother who didn't have time to dance along to groovy moves on cbeebies. Who did he think he was to make demands on me and my time? And what did I get out of the relationship? Nothing, sure he had fun with his dc, would take him out places, but he expected me to be doing the housework when they were out, it was scandalous that I would choose to have a bath or read a book with a cup of tea.

It wasn't worth it in the end. I hope your relationship is.

You are focusing a lot on being good enough for him, and how he clearly thinks you are not. But is he good enough for you? Do you honestly hand on heart think that your husband is a good partner? A good father? Is he failing you in any respects?

Omg dinosaurs! Was it my DP you were with???!! Are you me???

What gave you the final push to leave? I still love DP but I love the DCs more and if it comes to it, I will put them first.

I hope my ex isn't your Dp cause I feel very sorry for you if he is! We only split up a few months ago though so he will have been a very busy boy if he is.

I left it to long before I left him to be honest. I kept thinking that I could try harder, smooth things over, get the kids to play upstairs out of the way for when he got home for work so he would be less stressed, and there was always some reason not to, a birthday coming up, Christmas, a planned event - but in reality I didn't think things were bad enough to justify me leaving, even though I wasn't happy. I would cling on to the good things, always made an excuse for his attitude (he was stressed at work, not used to older children, getting used to being a father to our child, the list is endless) I was scared of being single, scared that I would ruin things for my toddler, it became normal and because I never felt that I was enough, that I measured up I started to believe I was lazy, neglectful of his needs etc.

It took me to long to realise that my children weren't happy. I am so ashamed that I didn't realise it before. I started to hear his words and his tone of voice from my eldest, I watched how he treated his younger brother and I thought shit! He has turned into xxxx. Because they were an unconvienience to him and I tried to make that easier for him, they started to feel that they were an unconvienience to me too. They couldn't have toys/mess out downstairs, and even in their own bedroom they were moaned out. Ex was always telling me to tell them to tidy their room or do this that and the other.

I was sick of hearing him put people down, judging people, being so bloody negative all the time.

And I still didn't leave.

But it all built up inside me and I eventually exploded over something stupid and irrelevant. I totally over reacted and snapped. I think I was waiting for an excuse that I could validate to myself and that other people could understand. My own happiness didn't seem like a good enough reason to break up the family. I see now though that the family was a sham. It was a disjointed mess and my children are so much happier. They are currently sprawled on the floor in the living room watching Disney channel and playing with ds3s toys. It's not tidy, but it's relaxed, it's easy and I love watching them as brothers. The washing up is still in the sink, I am sitting drinking a cup of tea surrounded by bickering and laughing. It seems a life time ago that I would be watching the hands of the clock, making excuses to why I haven't scrubbed the house, telling the dc to watch a DVD upstairs and rushing round hiding the evidence of a fun day. I don't feel guilty anymore, I had a nap with the toddler today because I am poorly and pregnant and because I needed a sleep, instead of getting him off and struggling with the housework in the hour that he slept.

It wasn't easy to leave, when he had gone I kept convincing myself that he wasn't that bad, I missed his company and just having someone there. But every time he comes round and makes comments on my lack of housework I remember what it was like. And of course seeing my dc happy and relaxed in their own home makes it all worthwhile.

Thank you so much for replying dinosaurs and congratulations on your pregnancy!

I think there are many similarities between my DP and your ex.

My eldest is not his bolivar child either. Whilst I often find his attitude towards him questionable (as in he expects him to help alot and run errands and is also very strict with him over his bedroom) I know he cares for him a lot and my son quite likes him. But his biological father has nothing to do with him donuts the only father he really knows. Even though I know DP will moan over the house, for the majority of the time I don't make a special effort to tidy up before he gets home. Having said that, u definitely do more housework than I would if I was on my own to avoid his wrath and I get quite stressed at the DCs sometimes for creating extra mess and extra work for me.

I have been with him over a decade and can relate to your reasons for staying. I wouldn't say I'm miserable all the time but when he's having a go constantly I find my happiness decreasing. I have not yet had that push to leave permanently but this thread has opened my eyes. And hopefully his too.

Can I ask how you managed to arrange visitation? When we have discussed separating he has been quite demanding over how much he will have the children and it will definitely be me who has to find somewhere else to live (he owns the house). I can see it being a minefield with him if it comes to that.

Bolivar - biological

One of the reasons I put off leaving was because ex had always said there was no way he would let me keep ds3, that he would take him and so on. So the first thing I did was see a soliciter after we split up. I explained to her that he had always said he would take the baby from me and I was able to get a prohibited steps order (stops ds3 from being taken out of my care) without his knowledge although he was informed afterwards and given the paperwork. Turns our it was a complete over reaction on my part as ex had been all talk and didn't have any intention of taking ds3 but I was worried and upset. I actually thought I would need more of a reason to get an order but I didn't, probably because it's seen as an interim thing whilst everything else gets sorted, it wasn't needed but it was good to know it was there.

We have a very informal arrangement and he sees a lot of ds3, doesn't really have him on his own (dont know why not if it's so bloody easy ) but has him at his mums. He will often pop round for an hour after work to see him but that's not really working as I have to send my other dc upstairs to play as they can't stand him. He doesn't have him over night but probably will as he gets older and easier to look after. I've been surprised at how easily we've been able to work things out really. I was expecting him cause me trouble and try to be controlling.... but, I've not had to say no to him having him for any reason yet, so everything's gone his way. I want them to have a strong relationship, but I don't know how things would work if I had a new partner (not that I plan too) or he meets someone, I'm sure a new girlfriend wouldn't want him popping in and out every other day and it would be awkward if I was living with someone never gonna happen as I could see ex having massive problems with another man around his child. It's early days, but the signs are good so far.

Thank you for the congratulations!

the thing is.

I am a lazy, sit-on-my-arse all day doing nothing person.
I'm in the shop most of the time, and if I'm not looking after DD (MN while she's BFing or sleeping in my arms), I'm certainly not doing housework!

But my DH said yours is being a knobber.
and (i quote) "our house is a tip, but we do what we need to do when we get a chance" (notice, he said we not you, DW )