To ask the MN jury to help me and DP solve an argument? (warning trivial)

[woopdiedoo]

DP came home from work and spotted a sweet wrapper left on the floor. It had been there since yesterday but I had forgotten to throw it away and hadn't been in that room today so didn't see it.

There is a rule that there is no eating in that room (his rule) but I sometimes let the DCs eat sweets, crisps in there.

We have just had a blazing row about it because he just left it there and told me to pick it up as I let the DCs eat in there and I'm at home all day anyway (SAHM with toddler) so should have dealt with it. I thought that he should because he'd seen it and even though I am a SAHM does not mean that I should do ALL housework and he should do none at all and I do not like being ordered to pick up rubbish as I am not a litter warden.

Who is being unreasonable?

"He wants you to know that he thinks the rest if the house is to an unacceptable standard. The wrapper should have already been picked up, he shouldn't have had to tell me to do it."

ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

If it doesn't reach his standard then why doesn't he clean it the fuck up himself?
The sweet-wrapper thing is beyond childish. What a very childish man he is.

On the other hand do you think you have a problem with clutter and do you feel embarrassed about having people in your home?

As someone who does I think that sometimes you do have to get to it and make a start on making a difference and maybe there is some truth in his words, maybe you really do need to have a good sort out - together?

Definitely stop doing his ironing and folding, he can take care of that himself.

Well, I think the house is ok for day to day living. If we were expecting guests I would probably be a little more thorough and make sure there was nothing in the floor, the rooms were hoovered and the honker the bathroom. Doesn't everybody make a bit more effort for guests? Personally, I don't think I should have to have it immaculate for when he homes home each day. I would donor if it was possible but the bottom line is, it isn't possible without completely neglecting my daughter. We go face a lot of 'stuff' but the house doesn't look cluttered in general, just the odd pike if papers stacking up etc.

Honker - go over

Face - have

how would you feel if the mum/dad of a friend of your children's popped in without warning?

OP, YANBU. I grew up in a mostly immaculate house, and I don't have a single memory of my mum playing with me as a child. My sister says the same. It makes me quite sad to think that my mum prioritised housework over enjoying time with us. Now I have children of my own I'd much rather the hoovering waited till the weekend, or the dust gathered for an extra day, and my daughters grow up with happy memories of their mum spending time with them.

randallpinkfloyd that had me welling up too!!
lovely, and true

He sounds horrible and pretty contemptuous of you tbh.

I agree totally earnest.

If someone came over unannounced, I would perhaps be a little embarrassed if there were dishes on the side or toys on the floor but no more than anyone else. I certainly wouldn't be thinking 'oh dear they might call SS on me'.

Op please ensure your dh sees this reply

Op do not give up any of the time you have with your little ones just to try and keep him happy. Your children are the most important things in the world. I've just gone back to work ft and would live to be able to go back and be with my dc again.

Just throwing a random thought into the mix:

When I was little, there was no concept of "spending time with the kids" and spending days entertaining them. Children had to fit around parents. Whether they were working out of home, or sahms busy doing housework.

It still is like that in Norway, where nearly 90% of mums work. You dont find any monkey music, or toddler swimming and football. You hardly find play grounds.
When maternity leave is over, when the child is either 10 or 12 months old, mums return to full time work and children go into nursery. People usually finish work around 4pm, so there is plenty of time in the afternoon to spend with the kids and the family. Few families employ cleaners. Mum and dad usually do the Friday cleaning together after work on Fridays. This way the house is nice and clean for visitors to come during the weekend. Children have much more freedom and autonomy, they are not pampered, but grow up pretty street smart and take part in house chores from an early age.
You dont find a mum who is NOT doing housework to entertain and play with her child, you mostly find that children are part of the chores, and learn chores from an early age.

I do sometimes wonder, what British children will turn out to be. Having spent their entire lives being the center of the universe. All important, entertained until they start school. Where mums fit their lives around their children's fun entertainment schedule. Then they start school, and are ferried around to all sorts of after school activities, to push them to achieve. Learn work ethic. Do they not grow up rather indulged, pampered and entitled?

Maybe if he wasn't so fucking clueless, deliberately hapless, leaves everything in the house and the childcare to you, etc., etc., then maybe the house would be a bit tidier... ?! Not that I think for a second that it should be up to you anyway. I'm currently a SAHM, I comcentrate on running round after my crazy toddler, just doing stuff like washing up, quick sweep of floor, etc, and me and my (working Ft) Dh do 50% of all the housework together the rest of the time. When the house looks like a bomb's hit it upon his return, he just grins and says something like "Had a good day, huh?!". He'd much rather me focus my attention on our son than do stuff we can easily tackle together that's not at the expense of our son getting attention.

If your DH thinks it's that bloody untidy, well, he knows where the hoover and mop are. But, of course, this has nothing to do with the state of the house. You must know this, surely, OP? It's all about control, belittling you, and making his own pathetic, feeble self feel better by making himself feel better than you. If it was about the house, he'd find a solution that didn't involve behaving this way.

His attitude towards your youngest really worries me too. Do you really want to be in a relationship with someone who genuinely thinks your time would be better spent cleaning up whilst you ignored a distraught child screaming blue murder from the high chair she's been dumped in? What a bully, what a bastard, what a git.

Anyway, who the FUCK does he think he is, whining like a man-bitch about a bloody wrapper and not allowing you to write what you want on MN? A Victorian father? Only someone truly pathetic and inadequate behaves this way. And someone who habitually fails or refuses to clear away their own crumbs or clippings has zero moral high ground when talking about a missed sweet wrapper, FFS.

Mr Whoopdiedoo, if you were my Dh, you'd be in A&E right now, having some sniggering medical students take turns in trying to remove a sweet wrapper shoved as high as possible up your rectum. Ad also snivelling at your tiny penis, because only the most pathetic of men feel the need to behave this way. Shame on you.

Sniggering, not snivelling. I was thinking too much about what a loser this guy is!

He's a sexist pig OP.

I agree with Quint and was going to write something similar. I don't see doing some house work in the day when you have young dc as a bad thing. I don't think they need constant stimulation or playing with. Ds3 19 months helps to tidy away his toys, if I'm polishing or hoovering he will usually grab a baby wipe and help. He sees it as a fun game.

However your dh sounds like a childish dick, he should help you more.

"If someone came over unannounced, I would perhaps be a little embarrassed if there were dishes on the side or toys on the floor but no more than anyone else. I certainly wouldn't be thinking 'oh dear they might call SS on me'. "

fair enough then, I think with me I am a little embarrassed byt the clutter and mess so I know I should do something about it and I might have sympathy for my husband if he found it upsetting but clearly you are ok with it so I think your husband must be being an arse.

I definitely do housework during the day, it just takes a lot longer than it should but if course DP doesn't understand this. He also thinks that I should get all the housework done in one go and then look after her. It's difficult to explain but we're not just talking general housework here, he also wants me to do bugger tasks like sort the junk room out and assemble beds and things. I just about manage with the day to say stuff and other weekly jobs like food shopping but he hands other tasks on top of that too.

I've been thinking about my son being embarrassed to let his friends in. He doesn't visit many friends so he wouldn't know what their houses are like. Also, I think he may be saying it just because DP does or he believes it as he hears it all the time. It was DPs point to add that in but if he'd let me I would have added that actually the friends were saying to him don't be silly, my house is worse than that, although it could have been as I was stood right there.

This thread has got me thinking about everything. I have text him to say that I want him to start respecting my contribution and appreciating what I do or I'm leaving.

Whoops bugger should read bigger. It means something else with that in .

Not sure that he will take you seriously if you come up with such a statement by text.

He's working away now so I won't see him until the weekend and I wanted to say it now while I feel strong. I find it is better to say things like that by text as he will have a chance to think about it before answering. If it were face to face I think he would just rehash all the old arguments about how hard he works and we would get nowhere. And then I'm just left thinking maybe he has a point. I've been overwhelmed by the responses on thus thread and its made me angry that he treats NMR like this. I think I deserve better.

NMR - me

Quintessential's posts are spot on. My DH loves to spend time with his son. He might not always do things the way I would, but he would certainly never just leave him crying and think that was acceptable. DS is 3, over time I've not only gone out of town for a weekend or two, but had many nights out with friends (easier once past the BFing stage, of course, but I could still manage a few hours away when I was).

He does jobs if they need doing and I'm unable, and takes on cleaning the bathroom as his sort of weekly thing to do. I do laundry, washing up, etc etc everything else. However, while our house is presentable (can usually have people over without having to do too much) it's not a show home.

The good thing about MN is it makes me appreciate him more. :)

Doing housework with a toddler around is tedious. My house is much tidier now that DS is at pre-school a few times a week. Things get clean and stay clean (until he's back) whereas with him here, it's make the bed, have him jump into it and un-make it, two steps forward one step back kind of thing. He's lovely, though, and thank bob I don't have a DH that comes home and moans about it all. This is probably because 1) well, he appreciates me and actually listens if I say something about my day (novel idea!) but 2) he's spent enough time alone with DS to know he's full-on and not much of anything gets done with him underfoot.

The text is the sort of thing you need to say in person. And mean it. I wouldn't throw about "or I'm leaving" unless I were willing to do it, otherwise he'll just mock you for it. Actually, he'll just mock you anyway, because he's a sad man who thinks you're there to take his verbal abuse. Sorry.

As far as I see it (and my DH) it is quite simple. The hours that he is away from the home you assume he is working and he assumes you are too. He may in fact be having a long lunch with a colleague or client, you may be having a coffee with a friend or on MN. That's fine in both cases because this is a life you are living not bootcamp. When you are at home it's team effort and all chores are split be it cooking, childcare or housework.

My DH works very very long hours, is abroad much of the time and not only am I a SAHM but my dc's are all at school. He doesn't expect me to do everything at the weekend or on the evenings when he does get home. He knows that my life is a lot easier now then when my dc's were younger and says it's payback as he wouldn't have wanted to swap back then.

Reading about how good men treat their partners makes me realise what it should be like. I am serious about leaving. I've not said I am leaving now, I am giving him the opportunity to change how things are. And when he comes home I will discuss in more detail like how long he has to prove himself. The housework is a very sore subject for us, we can never discuss it without having a row so I have text him to give him the chance to think about it. I didn't just put change or I'm leaving - it was a little longer than that!

I think the fact that he assumes every woman who disagrees with him is a lazy, sat on thier arse watching JK SAHM shows his true colours. Did the responses you got even make him think for a second that he was in the wrong? No!

Alot of the time my dp works longer hours than yours, yesterday for example, he started at 4am and was home for 4pm, his job isn't an office job, he has to drive all over the country to get to wherever he's scheduled that day and it's different every day, then he has to do the work which is physical work and then drive home again. He helps put the kids to bed, does the main food shop, cooks dinner for us all around once a week, picks up after himself, does all DIY, decorating and gardening, walks the dog after work and cleans up the poops from the garden. If I asked him to throw the hoover round he would without grumbling, he loads the dishwasher after dinner and washes up anything that has to be washed by hand and lots of other things. Most of all, if he walks in and the house is a tip and I say I'm tired lets order a takeout he doesn't say a word. He knows how hard it is with 4 kids, he knows a toddler can trash a room in 10 seconds when you have spent an hour tidying it and he knows that I'm not his skivvy.

Everything that a SAHM does for her partner, tidying thier crap up, washing thier clothes, cooking thier meals, that isn't an obligation, they do that by choice. Our husbands/partners are not our children, they are grown men who can take care of themselves and if they were single would have to deal with it all themselves.

If your dp isn't happy with how the house looks then he's got plenty of time when he's not working to clean it up. Why doesn't he clear that bedroom this weekend? Why does he expect you to do it on top of everything else when he's not prepared to just get on and do it without a fuss?

It's down to respect and he obviously has none for you or any appreciation for what you do for him. If you started working full time the care of your children would fall to someone else and seeing as his opinion is 'I work', would he chip in 50/50 with childcare and chores if you worked full time? I really don't think he would, I think he would come out with something like 'I work harder than you do so why should I?'.