to ask who has had botox or fillers or plastic surgery of some kind?

[wrinklesandproud]

(namechanged for this).

I can honestly say that having any of the above has never entered my mind. I'll be 40 next year. I have some wrinkles on my forehead, a neck that seems to be looking increasingly wobbly and wrinkly, and crinkles all round my eyes. But I just thought that was what happened as you got older. No-one I knew until very recently has ever had any 'work done'. Botox was something you read about in Grazia magazine.

But we've moved recently to a new area and (public) school and it seems that with the people where we live it is the norm to go for regular botox and/or fillers and/or other surgery from boob jobs to liposuction. This is discussed the same way buying a new dress would be chatted about over coffee. For the first time in my life I feel as though I am the odd woman out for just going au natural. I am starting to be swayed by their way of thinking, whereas previously I never could have imagined me having any of this stuff done.

So I'm just curious to know how many mumsnetters have either had any of these things done (if so what) and if not, would you consider it?

I sort of feel as though having stuff done is cheating, but if you're the only sucker not cheating, you end up as the loser.

Oldbag, that's fine and understandable. But I'd wager my house that the vast majority of posters on this thread are completely fine looking women who can't accept the ageing process. It's ridiculous that anyone in their 20's or 30's would have Botox.

I dont see why it's ok to have cosmetic enhancement because you feel you are ugly, but not because you want to stay looking young?

In both cases it's about wanting to change your appearance to something that you feel is more aesthetically pleasing, it's a subjective thing.
Why the need to justify it or get others to agree that you 'need' it and are somehow different from other women who you feel don't need it.

If I have surgery because I want a barbie doll look thats just my personal preference, in the same way that I might get a nose job because I have a large nose.

Why all the finger wagging about wanting to look 'gorgeous or younger'?
I dont go round criticizing women who decide not to bother about their appearance

I see your point but ultimately some people will think that any vanity is trivial and I dont think it is possible to make absolute distinctions between acceptable and unacceptable vanity

Someone up thread cited Kylie, Jennifer Lopez and Jennifer Aniston as looking odd now that they have had work done. Obviously that is a subjective view, I don't particularly think any of them look odd, just better than I would expect for their years. The thing is though, they might look as rough as a bag of spanners if it wasn't for the work they have had done. Who knows? Certainly k=not me, and I doubt anyone on this thread either.

Each to their own I can think of better things to spend the small amount of money I can afford on myself.
So a good haircut and colour,a monthly facial and eyebrow tidy make me feel well groomed and a fabulous fifty something.I love my face tbh.Yes there are a few more wrinkles,and not too keen on the lines around my mouth - probably from pursing my lips wondering why women in their 30s are already so heavily into Botox .30s ?!But that's just my opinion.
The face I have now is the face I've grown into with years of amazing highs,and lows,raising 3 wonderful DDs alongside my lovely DH.I will leave the unlined youthful look to my girls.They tell me I look great.My DH loves me just the way I am and often tells me.Luckily I have always looked younger than my age.As does my amazing 91 year old mum.She still looks so smart and stylish.Even with the wrinkles.She's more inspiring to me than Kylie !

exactly Snuggle, we can all weigh up the costs and benefits and proceed according to our own set of priorities & preferences

I really don't see any difference between a bit of Botox, and hair dye and makeup. And those that criticise women who use Botox, I'm assuming you don't use any cosmetics at all, wash your face with soap and water and leave your hair to frizz and go iron grey au naturellement? Good for you.

I don't mind other people using botox, do what makes you happy, but there's a huge difference between makeup and these kinds of procedures.

I say this as a self confessed vain person.

Well put chipped I think it is all very well for people who are 100%confident about everything but there are many people who aren't and it really isn't for anyone else to decide whether they are right or wrong to want to change things.

There of course is a difference between botox and make up but the principle is the same IMO.

I do think Jennifer Lopez looks bloody amazing though, she must have made a pact with the devil, she hasn't aged at all but she doesn't look at all plasticky either.

I have one friend who now in her 40s, has never used makeup, just a quick smith of olive oil. She's never coloured her hair, and wears her own individual clothes. In many ways she is a wonderful inspiration. But she looks like shit.

Chipped - I just spat my wine out reading that.

I have a friend like that but she is stunning I hate her She is actually starting to use anti wrinkle stuff now so I am starting to like her again.

I'm 48
I do not dye my hair : I like my white streak.
I do not wear makeup : I swim outdoors all year so am permatanned.
I only remove the monobrow bit on the bridge of my nose
however
the frown lines on my forehead are getting more permanent and I might consider having them weakend
but first I'll finish losing weight and less fat under my skin will thin down the wrinkles anyway

you're really really deluded if you think Botox is no different to makeup! Deluded, or in denial.

Chipped - you can't see the difference between a bit of lippy and a painful injection costing £100's of pounds of a toxin to stop your muscles moving? Weird.

obviously make up and botox are different things but they can be lumped together depending on what criteria are used to categorize them.

In the same way that shoes are different from cardigans, but you can lump them together if the criteria used to categorize them is something like 'apparel'

Stepaway, perhaps you'd like to outline what you feel the relevant criteria are so that we can try and understand the point you are making?

Botox and fillers are NOT makeup
they are medical procedures that cannot be wiped off at the end of the party
and are OVERDUE for massively tighter regulation

botox and make up are both used for cosmetic enhancement, what about permanent 'tattooed on' make up, does that count as make up or surgery?

We can all draw the line where ever we want according to what we do or dont approve of

I had Botox about 3 times over the last couple of years or so. I'm almost 45. What was interesting is that initially I had a very furrowed brow, especially the lines between my eyebrows. I was coming out of a time of intense depression, anxiety, PND and anemia after my third child. Since the Botox my face is much more relaxed, I haven't had any for months - can't remember the last time (maybe last Autumn?). My whole face is more relaxed. I went to a Dermatologist and he said he has noticed that a lot with patients - because the muscles are frozen it's as if the brain learns new patterns, and often patients stop using Botox or use it less. I definitely have found that to be the case. It took the stress and tension out of my face (which isn't necessarily anything to do with age).

How much does botox cost, out of interest? Say, for a whole face...brow lines, crows feet, jowls and neck?

botox (as far as I know) is only really useful for the upper face, jowls and neck would require some sort of face or neck lift.
Whole upper face is generally about £300-350 and to keep the effect constant would need doing about every 4 months for the first 4 years.

Face or neck lift you are probably looking at 7-8 grand (??)

Honey, yes, it's not just that botox relaxes the muscles, you also stop using them and they get weaker over time

Well, as I mentioned I haven't had Botox very often so wouldn't consider myself an "abuser"! But I think the intense stress I was under had etched itself in habitual facial tension and now that has been relieved. It also hasn't come back and I found by not being able to knot my eyebrows it actually relieved my stress somewhat. Although I did have a terrific headache the first time, but it felt more like by brain was being rewired! The movements that I had been doing for years (facial tensing and scowling) were not possible. Totally unscientific I know! I still use all my facial muscles easily - I am vey loud and expressive that way.

Out of interest I have someone in my household I can ask about this. My DH is a Neurologist and gives Botox to patients for various neurological conditions and migraines. And for those who claim they always can tell when people have used it my husband never noticed or realised that I used Botox!

Please everyone as so many posters have already said, make sure only a trained very experienced medical professional is ever doing any kind of procedure - not a beautician or other untrained individual.

Mercury: you do seem to have difficulty grasping any point of view that is different to yours.

I fully understand that you think botox is great and there are no dangers, but six weeks ago you probably didn't think that leaky breast implants could have a link with cancer in babies and would have derided anyone who suggested that.

Over the years I have seen many people's wrinkles decrease and faces change because they have retired, changed job or got divorced!
They have relaxed and so have their faces.