to ask who has had botox or fillers or plastic surgery of some kind?

[wrinklesandproud]

(namechanged for this).

I can honestly say that having any of the above has never entered my mind. I'll be 40 next year. I have some wrinkles on my forehead, a neck that seems to be looking increasingly wobbly and wrinkly, and crinkles all round my eyes. But I just thought that was what happened as you got older. No-one I knew until very recently has ever had any 'work done'. Botox was something you read about in Grazia magazine.

But we've moved recently to a new area and (public) school and it seems that with the people where we live it is the norm to go for regular botox and/or fillers and/or other surgery from boob jobs to liposuction. This is discussed the same way buying a new dress would be chatted about over coffee. For the first time in my life I feel as though I am the odd woman out for just going au natural. I am starting to be swayed by their way of thinking, whereas previously I never could have imagined me having any of this stuff done.

So I'm just curious to know how many mumsnetters have either had any of these things done (if so what) and if not, would you consider it?

I sort of feel as though having stuff done is cheating, but if you're the only sucker not cheating, you end up as the loser.

[Mumsyblouse]

I don't want to have things that need doing a lot, as I fear getting really old, going into a home and them neglecting me (!) So, no veneers (always falling off, won't get replaced when you are old), nothing needing ongoing treatment (botox, implants that need replacing every 10 years). Looking at many of the very old ladies I used to care for in a care home, electrolysis is a good investment, no-one comes and plucks your chin hairs!

[eccentrica]

mercury I don't know you, I don't care if you get implants or not, and I certainly don't wish cancer on anyone.

If anything I have been trying to talk you (and anyone else) OUT of doing things that may give you cancer!

[IneedAsockamnesty]

There is no link between cancer and implants as I explained earlier.

[AgathaF]

eccentrica - I'm sure someone else has already said it, but going by your profile you are early 30s. At that age I wouldn't have considered botox or fillers or anything else (still wouldn't fancy botox now but I fully respect those that make the decision to have it). Perhaps in ten or fifteen years, when the signs of aging are evident on your face, you will change your mind. Perhaps you won't. Hopefully though, you will be a little more understanding of why people would have things done to make themselves feel better.

Out of interest, do you not smoke or drink alcohol, dye your hair or wear make-up, use fake tan or sun bathe? All carry risks, most contain chemical crap that our skin could do without.

[nkf]

I'm amazed at how young some of you are. In your thirties and considering/have had these treatments. I'm surprised.

[eccentrica]

Agatha Yes, I'm 32. Many people on this thread are younger than me or my age and have had "work" done.

In answer to your questions - No, I don't smoke. I'm currently pregnant but I do usually drink alcohol. I've never dyed my hair (it's naturally jet black so I will probably dye the greys when they appear - however, I think that's not realistically comparable with surgery or injections). I wear eyeliner and mascara. I don't fake tan or sunbathe - I enjoy being in the sun while I'm doing other things, out and about.

More importantly though, my mum is 65 and she is stunning, and apart from dyeing her grey hair, she's completely natural. She has never worn make up, her skin is naturally tanned and beautiful, she would never in a million years dream of having botox, fillers, or any of these other procedures. I would find it very sad if she was spending money on the sort of procedures described here. Of course I'm biased so I think she's beautiful but so do other people - she gets chatted up more than me!

She looks considerably younger than her age, but she doesn't look "the same" as she did when she was half her age, thank god. She's filled out a bit (though she's still slim) and dresses in a stylish, simple way. She has also never seen the attraction in lying about her age or trying to conceal it. I very much hope that I can age half as beautifully and gracefully as her.

[ivanapoo]

Agatha what are the risks of wearing make up?! Looking like a clown?

[BegoniaBampot]

I just worry about what lies ahead for our children and what message we we are sending them about how looks and youth is all. If this stuff is being so normalised (all the dyeing your hair and wearing make up is just the same - really?) and expected with the criticism about yegads folk having some lines and crows feet in their forties and fifties and looking ugly and angry rather than serene (expressionless and plastic).

Will you really be happy when your 20 something kids (more likely daughters) start going with you to get your treatments and will probably by then doing even more evasive stuff as we know how this kind of thing escalates.

[BegoniaBampot]

Or maybe even invasive.

[AgathaF]

ivanapoo - some information about some of the chemicals in make-up [http://chemistry.about.com/od/healthsafety/tp/toxic-chemicals-in-cosmetics.htm here]].

I wear it too, by the way. My choice. Lots of people on here also throw their hands up over that, but like everything we all decide what informed risks we would like to take.

So eccentrica your mum looks stunning. Perhaps if she didn't, and had seen her face deteriorate suddenly with wrinkles, sagging or whatever, she might consider some minor work - fillers or botox. She dyes her hair though, so obviously considers that it is worth the risk of a severe allergic reaction and putting carcinogens on her head. As you have said that you will do when you get some grey hair. There's plenty of information about the nastier chemicals in hair dye available - even warnings on the boxes now.

Probably more risk in using hair dye than having fillers. I certainly consider hair dye a risk too far to take personally now (after using it in ignorance for many years) so I use henna now.

[mercury7]

no one in their 30's can know how they will feel 15 or 20 years hence when the facial signs of ageing start to show.
Unless you have experienced this I dont think your opinion has much weight

[eccentrica]

Agatha of course my mum has some wrinkles and sagging, she's 65! She still looks stunning with those wrinkles.

The difference is not that she has some weird time potion and still looks 35, but that doesn't obsess about her looks. Partly because she's so comfortable in her skin, she has a grace and confidence that comes with not spending all her time staring at herself in the mirror. Her father, my grandfather, died a couple of years ago aged 98 and he looked great for his age too because he had such confidence, calm presence and stature. He was smart, independent, well dressed and impeccably behaved right up to the end. That's how i want to age, not desperately clinging on to an illusion of youth through injecting poisons into my face.

I know there are occasional allergic reactions to hair dye but it is nothing like the same level of risk. Clearly most people think that's a silly comparison too (and almost all older women as well as many younger women, and many men, dye their hair regularly, so it's obviously very rare indeed).

mercury if you're going to decree that you are not interested in the opinion of anyone below a certain age, no matter how informed or evidence-based, that's your loss.

As I've explained at great length I have a fantastic role model in my mum and given that I've followed her example with pregnancy, childbirth and many other aspects of life, I am hopeful that I'll also follow her example when it comes to ageing gracefully, rather than trying to fake an impression of youth which was never real in the first place.

[mercury7]

OK, a little thought experiment.

What if there was some affordable treatment/procedure which could restore your face to that of your 35 year old self, this treatment is 100% safe.

Would that be ok, would you have it?

[mercury7]

Eccentrica you clearly come from a lineage of god like superbeings and probably just cant relate to us graceless, insecure, badly behaved and badly dressed mortals

[AgathaF]

So eccentrica are you saying that those of us who have had fillers or botox are "obsessing with our looks" or "spending too much time staring at ourselves in the mirror"? Frankly, that is absurd. I absolutely don't spend too much time staring at myself, in fact I rarely look in the mirror after first thing in the morning when I dry my hair and put on make-up.

However, prior to having tear trough fillers, I used to catch sight of my reflection at times - shopping being the worst time with harsh lighting (don't shop in stores very often, prefer online so it wasn't that often), in lifts with reflective walls, at the hairdressers etc. Being told for a few years that I was looking tired, or being asked if I had been out the night before, all contributed to a loss of self-esteem. Since having fillers I don't get asked that any more and if I do catch sight of myself when I'm out, I'm reasonably happy with my appearance.

With regard to your comment about hair dye risks "most people think that's a silly comparison" - I think in actual fact that many people are unaware of the risks. There have been deaths from severe allergic reactions to PPD in dyes in the UK and elsewhere, there are documented cases of bladder cancer which are linked to the use of hair dyes. Real, actual risks.

I hope that I'm a good role model to my 22 year old daughter. She has no desire for botox or fillers or anything else. She knows I have fillers and why. She agrees that I look better, more refreshed she says, for having them. She may have them when she is older if she has the same issue - which as my daughter, genetically she might. She knows I researched them thoroughly before having them and I know she would do the same. She wouldn't just pronounce an opinion of something without knowing the facts. Something that others would do.

[mercury7]

Agatha, I have a daughter of similar age, I think that when she is my age there will be much more sophisticated cosmetic treatments available.

I'm hopeful that within my lifetime there will be huge improvements and it will be easy to maintain a youthful & attractive appearance well into later life :o

I will be taking full advantage

[AgathaF]

Good for you mercury. I really can't see what all the bloody fuss is about

[mercury7]

and yes hair dye is a bit of a worry...a cousin of mine had a severe allergic reaction

no doubt Eccentrica's mum has a superior genetic make up which can resist the toxic effects of hair dye :o

[mercury7]

the fuss purports to be about dangers and toxins, really I think this is just a cover for not wanting other women to look younger or more attractive than they 'ought' to

[eccentrica]

mercury

"Eccentrica you clearly come from a lineage of god like superbeings and probably just cant relate to us graceless, insecure, badly behaved and badly dressed mortals"

no doubt Eccentrica's mum has a superior genetic make up which can resist the toxic effects of hair dye grin

Not even going to waste time responding to this playground-level rubbish. I've tried to have a genuine discussion and to express my points carefully, but unfortunately you keep resorting to crude sarcasm and stupid statements like claiming that I would like you to get cancer. Not terribly mature really, for someone who thinks that 32 is too young to have a valid opinion.

The divide on this thread isn't between older and younger; I think there are plenty of women my age and younger who are already a long way down the road of cosmetic procedures and conversely there are many older women on this thread who are comfortable in their own skin.

I find the idea of "maintaining a youthful appearance well into later life" frankly creepy as well as doomed to failure, and also find it sad that both of you are happy to predict that your twentysomething daughters having cosmetic surgery and similar procedures in years to come - my daughter is only two but what I would love is for her to be happy enough in her own skin not to support this (literally and metaphorically) poisonous industry.

Hey, good luck with it all anyway, I'm off

[Chippedandstained]

Ter rah!

[BegoniaBampot]

mercury are you Alicia Duvall? You seem to have similar mindsets.

Yes, we are all just jealous as we are old and haggard with a few lines. Not that some of us are concerned with the effect and dangers these poisons and toxins and other invasive proceedures might have to say nothing how it often leads people to do more and more, unable to cope with aging and end up looking like Joan Rivers or Lesley Ash or that footballers wife who died. Then there is the effect and message it sends out to our children.

Would I get anything done, I honestly don't know but haven't considered it yet even though I can see the effects of aging in the mirror. But the so blasé attitudes (yes botox is just like a putting n some lipstick )some are spouting here just sound so irresponsible and stupid. Also the contempt and making fun that seems to be coming through regarding thoses who actually have some lines and crows feet which is perfectly normal after all.

[mercury7]

am I Alicia Duvall?
nope
can I be bothered to discuss this any further?
probably not:o

[Hummuschocolate]

No

[IneedAsockamnesty]

Some people like cosmetic procedures some people don't. As long as all procedures are legal then one persons view point has nothing to do with the other.

Both views are equally valid and of equal importance to that person but have very little importance to the other.

No matter what stance you take or procedure you have or don't have its bugger all to do with anybody else and certainly shouldn't be used to ridicule,when you start doing that you sound like badly brought up children.

Oh and FYI Alicia happens to actually be a very real person with feelings she's also quite pleasant.