Censorship and DD3's teacher... AIBU?

[NoNoNora]

Yesterday evening DD3's teacher called to voice her concerns about how appropriate the programmes we let her watch are. DD3 is ten and for all four DDs we haven't paid any attention to ratings, they'll watch what we watch and we won't question what they want to watch during their TV time (unless a fight breaks out between them), none of them are at all traumatised or have nightmares and they always voice their fears and/or leave the room if something is too much for them.
The latest craze at DD3's school is top trump cards and she took DD2's Buffy ones in last week (DD2 is at uni so DD3 has the run of her bedroom and belongings). As a family we all watch Buffy together and have done since it first started, we own the DVDs and the girls have grown up watching it. Of course there are things that the younger ones don't pick up on (i.e. much of the sixth season) but DP and I feel that it is a very positive programme for our girls to watch.
DD3's teacher did not agree with our view. She confiscated the cards for the day on Friday and then called me that evening. Apparently she was concerned that our older girls had been showing 'innapropriate' programmes to the younger ones. I explained that we watched Buffy as a family and I had given her permission to take the cards into school. She then proceeded to explain the importance to ratings and the problems with 'desensitising' children to violence and sex. I was flabbergasted and promised not to let DD3 take the cards into school again but maintained that I was doing nothing wrong in my parenting.

I can't be the only mum who thinks like this? DP is incredibly anti-censorship and wants to send her in with DD2's much more graphic 'Angel' cards on Monday, with a note to the (and I quote) "fascists".

I can't believe what I have read, I wish I knew the OP in RL so I could report her to SS immediately.

"Flojo1979- So my daughter being anorexic was my fault?"
I do not think that is what Flojo was doing, rather that she was pointing out to you that you had previously asserted that your children were "HAPPY. Not traumatised, not violent. Normal, questioning, secure children" who were "supported and secure and have been nurtured enough to ask questions and voice concerns when they are unsure/scared." By and large, anorexia suggests unhappiness and insecurity.

"Lara2- I posted because I thought it was ridiculous that the teacher felt the need to give me a lecture about what I should and should not allow my children to watch. (I mistakenly thought that everyone else on here would agree)"
SO you thought people would agree with you. What do you think about the fact that we don't?

Might I refer you to the Children Act 2004....

You may think your choices are perfectly fine - but according to the above act, and a myriad of other Safeguarding Children legislation they are not fine - they are far enough from fine to be considered a Safeguarding issue. You are placing your children "at RISK of emotional harm". That's all it takes to be in breach of the law. You don't have to cause actual harm - just behave in a way which MAY cause harm.... which you are doing.

If you don't watch things first you have no way of knowing whether or not they might be worried or frightened by what they see - so by allowing them to watch without checking first you are placing them "at risk of emotional harm". The ratings are there to tell you whether something has the potential or is highly likely to cause emotional harm to someone below the age specified. It's one thing to ignore it - it's another to not even check first.

So you are clearly placing them "at risk" - and should they be scared or worried or desensitised then you have actually caused emotional HARM. Obviously if they are scared/worried/uncomfortable enough to "leave the room" then they HAVE been subjected to emotional harm - because leaving is a reaction to what you have allowed them to see, and a reaction has a cause...

Many children who are exposed to inappropriate material do not demonstrate behavioural issues until long after the fact, and it's only through psychological help that the cause becomes apparent.

You're storing up potential mental health time bombs for your children by letting them have access to material they are emotionally incapable of processing. They can be as intelligent as you like, but you cannot speed up emotional maturity.

But then if the balloon does burst in your face and one another of your children develops a mental health issue will you also then be saying it's not your fault as per your daughter's anorexia??? Probably.

There is a saying... "Parents...they fuck you up". Sounds like you're doing a grand job on your children.

Shoddy parenting, very very shoddy.

I can only 100% agree with almost everyone else has said.

You may think you are the "cool parents", but your children are children, not mini adults.

You are supposed to be their parents, not their best mates.

And in fact, I don't think Joss Whedon's shows are all that when it comes to portraying sexuality. He does write great, complex female characters with lots of personal agency, but sex is consistently presented in the Buffy and Firefly universes as something that women give men to reward them for being Nice Guys. Mal and Inara's relationship in Firefly is utterly fucked-up yet presented as one of the central romantic relationships of the show. I wouldn't want someone who's not mature enough to unpack and be critical of that message to see the shows.

You are definitely not being unreasonable.

My husband and I are both teachers (primary and secondary) and he recently introduced me to the Buffy series. I believe it's actually very good at exploring moral dilemmas and contemporary issues in a safe and often metaphorical way.

If the school have an issue with the trump cards, fair enough - don't take them in. But to say that watching this programme is a CP issue is ridiculous and belittles genuine CP cases, in my opinion.

Read the thread!

Agree read the whole thread Buffy not the issue

Skellig - did you read the whole thread?

The OP has also allowed her younger DD's (10 and 6) to watch Carnivale and Firefly..... And they are NOT Buffy. They are adult programmes with adult themes. You could argue that Buffy is for kids (15 cert so personally wouldn't be allowing a six year old to watch it, nor a 10 year old) but Carnivale is a different thing entirely. She also said that on occasion they have watched Silent Witness and Waking the Dead. Again - not exactly Buffy.

The OP also said if her children (remember - 10 and 6) wanted to watch Saw and could explain why she would LET them.

So whilst Buffy is a bit "grey area" - the other things they are being allowed to view/would be allowed to view are not.

I cannot for the life of me figure why anyone would think that Silent Witness, Waking the Dead, Carnivale or Firefly are in any way appropriate for children of 6 and 10 to watch.

I'm hoping as a teacher you agree - or that you have an upcoming Safeguarding Children course.....

Why do you view protecting your children from material that is too adult for them to fully understand or process and may cause them distress (even if that distress is not immediately apparent) as censorship. Why do you seem to want to push them into growing up and being exposed to adult material? They are young for such a short time and have a whole lifetime as an adult to watch more challenging material. It doesn't show they are brighter, cooler, more mature than their peers because they have watched something too old for them, it just means they are less well protected.

Perhaps you should respect their need and right to be a child instead of ignoring their needs in your desperate urge to pat yourself on the back for your right on liberal parenting.

I have indeed read the while thread, although I have to admit I skimmed through some of the more irate rants.

Coola, my safeguarding training is not only up to date, but I have recently voluntarily done some extra training in this area for a qualification I was pursuing. I got 100% in my final exam.

I confess that I haven't watched every programme/film that has been discussed, but I think it is legitimate to reply to the original post and the original issue. My overriding impression of this thread is that this has got clouded and people are taking hypothetical situations as actual examples of child abuse.

The OP stating that her 6 & 10 year old DDs watched Carnivale (graphic violence), Firefly, Silent Witness and Waking the Dead is not hypothetical.

Buffy for me is, as I said, a grey area. I wouldn't let kids that age watch it, but if people do, then I'm not going to bang a drum about it. I do believe teachers have a right to confiscate items they deem unsuitable - and as Buffy has a 15 certificate and the child in question was 10 in a class of 10 year olds, then I think the teacher did the right thing. If I knew a teacher was aware that a child was showing others images from an age inappropriate programme and didn't do anything about it I wouldn't be happy.

But the original post evolved - and other things the OP said, and programmes she stated she let's her children watch or would let them watch, became more adult and more serious. And then things do head into the realms of risk of harm as defined in law.

Certificates and watersheds exist for a reason - to protect children from seeing things that are deemed not suitable by professionals. I appreciate that there has to be some parental leeway there, but to allow children of 6 and 10 to choose what they watch with no pre-viewing, on the understanding they can leave the room if they get frightened/uncomfortable etc is putting the children at risk of emotional harm. Once they have seen something that makes them want to leave the room they can't unsee it, it's too late - the harm has been done.

If you haven't seen them - IMDB/Google them. Then you might have a better understanding of why people are responding in the way they are.

Skellig - you're welcome to just respond to the original issue in the original post and ignore all that's been revealed since.

However, as with so many of these types of threads - an original question is posed, and then a pandora's box of issues is unleashed and the thread moves on. This is what everyone else is also responding to.

I do think that the OP is arguing herself into a corner, contradicting herself left, right and centre, going on the defensive and digging her heels in, in the face of an obviously very unexpected reaction to her original question. The fact that one DD does have a mental health issue is problematic - I almost wish the OP hadn't revealed that (kept it private for herself; regardless of this being anonymous), because it just makes this thread even more uncomfortable reading. And this being AIBU - some less-than-sensitive posters may use it against her. :)

God, sorry - that smiley face was meant to be a :( - as in, I really hope people don't do that.

Long term lurker here but I had to say something..
OP, you sound like you want to do right with your kids, and you sound sincere, but can you accept that you might just be wrong on this?

Why don't you at least do your own research into the effects this might have on your children?
I am struggling with your very firm assertion that you are right, and everyone else is wrong. Can't you accept that you might just be wrong on this issue?

I certainly wouldn't let a ten year old watch Waking the Dead or Silent Witness.

I wouldn't have Human Centipede in my house.

There are episodes of Buffy/Angel that I found emotionally challenging to watch as an adult. How did your children respond to the last episode with Joyce in it (not wanting to spoil) or the first post-Glory episode?

It would be interesting to know how much TV your children watch in a week and how much of it is aimed at their age group.

Wow OP. You sound negligent at best.

And you come across as being very self satisfied and immature.

for your DC based on your posts.

Buffy was origionally shown on Sky at or after 9pm. The 6pm version was edited / cut.

There is an episode where Anya creates an alternative universe. In it Willow is a vampire who plays with 'the puppy' which is actually Angel.

In the unedited version you see her lighting matches and dropping them on Angel who is chained up.

Themes in Buffy are quite adult, death - lots of death and violence, torture, dark magic, planning of mass murder at a high school and a sprinkling of sex.

I think the teacher is right to be concerned.

You are not being a responsible parent and your husband sounds like a fool. Find your nearest CAMHS service and ask them what your actions will do to your kids.

OP, you are free to ignore all the comments here, and the opinion of the teacher.
That is your perogative as parents.
However, your children need to know not to discuss inappropriate material with their peers, or as a teacher I would have to get involved to prevent the contamination spreading and the consequent child and parental distress amongst other families.
In the same way that some children and parents swear continuously out of school and it's none of my fucking business, but using inappropriate language in school would trigger my duty of care for all the minors in my charge.
The teacher has had one conversation with you, voicing her concerns and opinions. Write to her telling her you will do as you please and she is not welcome to comment further, but also educate your daughters to not discuss or bring in age-inappropriate materials to school.
I think you are wrong too, but you are by no means my first or even my twentieth encounter with that attitude.

Oh and sometimes anorexia is a kick back, especially for girls, a rebellion against growing up. Maybe your daughter wanted to be a small child, cosseted and protected and stopped eating for this reason.
You need to speak to a forensic psychologist about the damaging effect on kids who have been allowed to watch this that their brain cannot begin to understand, doesn't matter how you sugar coat it, sit as a family and war h it and discuss afterwards, your children DO NOT HAVE THE MENTAL CAPACITY TO UNDERSTAND AND PROCESS ISSUES IN THE SAME WAT AS ADULTS.

Totally agree with Woffling, sashh, Ophellia and the many others saying you sound like a pair of self-satisfied eejits.

Teacher did the right thing.

I am, as I always say on these threads, Victorian about what my kids watch. All our tellies and devices have parental control restrictions on them.

No they don't live on a visual diet of Winnie the Pooh - we do watch films with older ratings with them. But only ones ones with swear words like for eg Planes, Trains and Automobiles (which has a big F-word scene), not ones with sex, violence, scariness etc.

Children do also have a choice not to watch something of its too scarey/violent for them.

For example: when I was about 6 years old I loved Thomas the tank engine, but Diesel scared me so much that everytime he was on screen I would go behind the sofa.

The Witches also scared me too, and Fantasia.

But I was 1 of 4 children and it wasn't always up to me what was put on. So I used to go and do something else.

What I'm trying to say, is you should try and protect your children from adult themes, but your never going to stop them from suffering with nightmares after watching things that are made for the right age. We can only do our best.

I have 2 older ds 18and 16 who both play CoD etc ( yes I'm aware that's it's 18 I think ) but that's my choice for ds2 and yes I pretty much allow ds2 to self regulate now have since 15 but he is aware things do not get discussed when younger children etc around

But both of them would coved the computer screen /block/mute it if dd age 10 and ds age 7 was to come in their room for something . They both can see and agree its not approaite for younger children

Same dd age 9 knows the full facts of life she asked so we got some books and read and discussed it but she knows she's not to discuss at school as other children might not be ready to learn

They seem have better understanding than you of what's approaite