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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to think that Freemasonry should not be allowed to exist?

573 replies

StickMeToTheMan · 06/10/2012 14:59

... or that members should declare their membership - especially those in positions of power - police, SS, politicians etc?

I am just flabbergasted that this is allowed in this day and age. Take a look at the JS scandal and the potential involvement of the masons, and surely no-one can dispute that this old boy network is dangerously shady.

Can anyone explain to me what it is really for, and if membership to any secret society is justifiable in this day and age?

AIBU?

(Namechanged as have been discussing on FB)

OP posts:
Original poster
StickMeToTheMan · 06/10/2012 15:33

Grin that makes sense!

So, it explains how to become a mason (sort of) but not why. Can anyone tell me that? I'm a woman and don't like golf.

OP posts:
Bluegrass · 06/10/2012 15:33

It's basically charity work, a social thing and a bit of am-dram.

GoldShip · 06/10/2012 15:33

YABU.

Original poster
StickMeToTheMan · 06/10/2012 15:35

No tough, it is more than that.

Those saying YABU, do you think it is just that judges, senior police officers and politicians should belong to a secret network? Really?

OP posts:
Doodlekitty · 06/10/2012 15:36

I'm not saying that giving to charity is a right to do what JS did. I'm just sick of being told masons are evil when so many men I love are involved with them. They are not particular secret, or they would not have websites. What they do is fairly well documented. Like someone else said, I don't know what goes in at a WI meeting but that does not mean I think they prance around covering young virgins in Jam. They are like any other club, ask around and you would probably find one that would let you join (women's group or a mixed) then you can see for yourself.

DreamsTurnToGoldDust · 06/10/2012 15:37

I think the masons of yesteryear have changed? Did they not use to invite people to join, can you apply now like Beavers or Cubs?

GoldShip · 06/10/2012 15:38

'Secret network' they're not slaughtering goats and sacrificing virgins you know. What would you get from knowing?

garlicbutty · 06/10/2012 15:38

"Studying the Freemason organization, charity for them seems to mean manipulating tax laws so that they can give more to themselves and their friends.

"To illustrate this, if you visit the United Grand Lodge of England webpage, you can click on the "Charitable Work" link, and discover that Freemasons channel their charitable efforts through four charities. Then, if you check the eligibility requirements for each of those supposed charities, you will see that they all restrict their help to Freemasons, former Freemasons and close dependents of Freemasons."

bobblackmanmp.info/freemasons.html

I don't know how accurate this site is (it's a protest site, not Bob Blackman's) but it gives plenty of information that's easy to check.

MadgeHarvey · 06/10/2012 15:38

You've got a proper bee in your bonnet about this one haven't you OP! Go dig a little further online and have a look at the conspiracy websites. Whether you choose to believe them or not is your lookout but I think you'll come to see that in the grand order of things the Freemasons are nothing but a bit of a club for slightly silly boys who make up for it by doing a lot for charity. Sinister? Nah - there's way way worse out there.

Original poster
StickMeToTheMan · 06/10/2012 15:39

Why do they often refuse to disclose their membership?

Why are there rituals that they are not allowed to disclose?

Why do you have o be invited to join?

Why do new members and their families have to be vetted?

OP posts:
Spuddybean · 06/10/2012 15:39

I have always been very anti masons, along with a lot of other things. I have socialist leanings and dislike anything which appears to exclude people and provide an unfair advantage to it's members (I hate Linkedin for reasons of unfair job advantages to those who are in your groups rather than have transparent interviews etc).

However, I have managed to fall in love with someone who not only is in the army but also is a freemason. After realising that it is actually a tree house club for overgrown school boys, and seeing no hint at unfair advantage or promotion for it's members, and also the amount of money they give to charities and funds they set up to support each other, (if dp died and i was struggling they pay towards the funeral and towards our families support), i have had to conclude i was anit the myth of the masons and not the reality.

I think the problem is, it is surrounded i mystery and myth and altho i disagree with it conceptually, the reality is i have found it harmless and actually beneficial to a lot of people - not just the members. Perhaps it was set up to offer unfair advantages, and possibly a few members do continue this, but i think it has evolved into no more than a social club.

MardyBra · 06/10/2012 15:40

The problem is: you've effectively put two questions in the OP.

to think FM should not be allowed to exist? YABU for free speech, right to assemble reasons.

to think FMs should declare themselves? YANBU imo

Original poster
StickMeToTheMan · 06/10/2012 15:41

Also, how many of the lead figures in the most recent sex scandals (not just JS) are reportedly members?

OP posts:
garlicbutty · 06/10/2012 15:42

What would you get from knowing?

I believe it would be helpful to know which influential men have sworn to uphold one another against all odds.

If it's innocent, why's it secret?

Doodlekitty · 06/10/2012 15:42

I've never been vetted and I'm family of a Freemason.
You actually have to kind of ask to join, you have to have shown an interest and then be invited.
You need to be invited in order to attempt to avoid having people that do things like JS was accused of joining
I would imagine most clubs will have a members criteria
I could put my hands on a book right now which lists all of the rituals etc which happen at various meetings.

McPhee · 06/10/2012 15:43

Not this masons thing again Hmm

There is nothing sinister about them or what they do

Many, in fact, hundreds of charities wouldn't exist if it wasn't for them. Period.

Original poster
StickMeToTheMan · 06/10/2012 15:43

"if dp died and i was struggling they pay towards the funeral and towards our families support" so, spuddy, it's not real charity work, but just a system of providing unfair advantages to the more disadvantaged of their own?

OP posts:
MardyBra · 06/10/2012 15:44

Even if it is harmless spuddy, I am opposed to the masons because it is a "society with secrets". It may be harmless, so why all the hocus pocus and jiggery pokery. And quasi religious nonsense. Just join the Lions Club if you want to raise some money.

Not to mention farming off the "ladies" to a separate wing.

Spuddybean · 06/10/2012 15:45

Oh and DP wasn't 'vetted' they invited him for an informal chat. They asked if he was married, he said no, but he had a partner and a baby on the way. They asked how i felt about it, DP said i was anti it as was anti any groups which offered unfair advantages. They laughed. No checks were done on me or DP. Dp has never seen a ritual or anything like that. They all take the piss out of the reputation for doing that (i'm sure they did it in the past). Yes a lot of the members hold military and police jobs, with high level security clearance, but it is no different from them joining a group like this at work. DP has never been offered a job or offered a job out, or to cover anything up, or to scratch anyones back or seen anything like that.

aldiwhore · 06/10/2012 15:45

I'm not sure that JS being a freemason or not has changed anything, not his crime nor the fact he 'got away with it' ... there were many people who suspected what was happening that weren't freemasons, there were many people who turned a blind eye or who worried about the loss of charity money for outing him. JS was a clever man and played on people's guilt (that if they blew the whistle 1000's of children would lose out on much needed funds).

What makes me uncomfortable is that now he's dead there's no such thing as a fair trial. He could be innocent, he can't defend himself. That angers me hugely, but it takes a very BRAVE person to blow a whistle...

Who like secret clubs? I don't, they make me suspicious. In every 'club' there's a chance of corruption and cover up. BUT if they were a more 'open' club, transparent in everything and accountable for every action every member makes, does that mean there would be no corruption? Of course not.

There have been massive failings from every segment of society regarding the JS allegations and not all of it is the fault of the freemasons. It's understandable why the women involved didn't come forward while he was alive, but it doesn't help, no good comes from claims once he's dead (not if you believe in trial, evidence, justice, innocent until proven guilty and the right to defend yourself), it's understandable why freemasons didn't 'out' a member of their club (if no one had actually made a formal complaint...)... a lot went wrong if he's guilty, not just from the freemason PoV but every sector of society.

Jimmy Saville was a master of playing people. He was smart. Personally I think he's probably as guilty as hell, but without him being able to defend himself or answer for what he did IABU to state that. Him being a mason is the smallest issue here, because many many people knew what he was doing and did nothing.

CakeExpectations · 06/10/2012 15:45

There was a thread about Freemasonry last month here which was very informative and will answer many of your questions.

Original poster
StickMeToTheMan · 06/10/2012 15:46

McPhee, how can you say that categorcally? Do you have any factual information about what they do?

And as for many charities existing... more charities doesn't necessarily make for a better world. There is still likely to be the same amount of money swilling around the general charity pot. It sounds as if they are simply making sure that their mates get first dibs on it.

OP posts:
mrsminerva · 06/10/2012 15:46

Factoid here, Hitler really hated the Freemasonry and proscribed it and sent members to concentration camps.

I have concerns about loyalty regarding Freemasons, who do they owe their ultimate allegiance to? Each other or to their jobs? In the case of police, polticians, judges and the like this can be very dangerous to the rest of us. I also don't like the sexist nature of the organisation, women cannot join.

Spuddybean · 06/10/2012 15:46

No sorry i meant charity work AND funds for those of their own struggling (like the unions do, or working mens clubs). But they are okay as they are working class i suppose?

Doodlekitty · 06/10/2012 15:48

Freemasons were the first to give money to the tsunami victims. Children who go into hospital are given a teddy bear by the Freemasons (I'm not sure if it's certain hospitals, or just long term, or every child). They do not just give them to children whose Daddy's are members and hit those who are not with sticks.
And yes, they also support there own. My church is currently raising money for a wheelchair for a child who attends, is that evil too?

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