to think that Freemasonry should not be allowed to exist?

[StickMeToTheMan]

... or that members should declare their membership - especially those in positions of power - police, SS, politicians etc?

I am just flabbergasted that this is allowed in this day and age. Take a look at the JS scandal and the potential involvement of the masons, and surely no-one can dispute that this old boy network is dangerously shady.

Can anyone explain to me what it is really for, and if membership to any secret society is justifiable in this day and age?

AIBU?

(Namechanged as have been discussing on FB)

[StickMeToTheMan]

What if your 'supreme being' didn't produce a text?

[Spuddybean]

don't you have to believe in a 'higher power' to join AA too?

[SaurenLaurensonsMum]

Thank you OneMoreChap.

[LineRunner]

Why do some people start laughing about conspiracies I haven't even mentioned, when I ask about conflicts of interest on city councils? There are millions of pounds at stake with some of the applications that come in.

[OutragedAtThePriceOfFreddos]

I haven't got a problem with the masons, I think they are predominantly a social group made up by men who like to pat each other on the back and stroke each others egos. And that's fine, we are social beings after all.

The might have rituals, but so do Catholics, Muslims, and people from just about every religion, and even every walk of life. Look at how much people in the Olympic stadium loved being together to do something as simple as sing the national anthem, or the way we send our scouts, guides, cubs and brownies out to march together on Remembrance Day. Humans like coming together to share things.

Maybe they do feel some kind of loyalty to each other, but again, I can't see how that's much different to people from many other groups or friendships sticking together. I agree with the like attracts like comments made earlier. But I can't remember who wrote that.

[StickMeToTheMan]

One last question OMC - why are you a mason? a) why did you join and b) what do you get out of it?

[Betterthedrivelyouknow]

Spuddy: how do you know you haven't been vetted? You could've easily been checked out without your knowledge (police and Drs have access to lots of info about you).

Adeu: you could also ask them how they feel about being a smokescreen to divert attention from those at the top!

[adeucalione]

Will do, drivel

[OneMoreChap]

StickMeToTheMan
One last question OMC - why are you a mason? a) why did you join and b) what do you get out of it?

I'm what's called a Lewis - my father was a Mason, though I never went to his Lodge which was in South America.

I joined to meet a wider range of people, fill my time, and enjoyed the ritual and structure.

I've met and "worked" with millionaires, unemployed people, doctors, teachers, nurses, the odd bobby, shopkeepers.

I've met loads of people and raised lots for charity.

Oh, in passing we don't ask for a masonic handshake before the boats we buy for the RLNI pull you out.

[adeucalione]

Drivel - I asked my father and he says yes, freemasonry is divided into two groups : the average local people who join to be sociable and to do charity work, and the evil international overlords who want world domination.

[DreamsTurnToGoldDust]

Can I ask a question OMC if your still here, I just wondering if the Masons have modernised and changed the way they were from say 30 or 40 years ago, I think most people's perception of the mason being secretive and old boys network stems from the reputation they had then, I was wondering if they have actively tried to change the way they are viewed from them, if that makes sense. Thanks.

[OneMoreChap]

DreamsTurnToGoldDust

Not changed much in 30 years - even then we had falling numbers.
We have an open attitude now - look at the number of websites!

[butisthismyname]

if it isn't in the least bit 'dodgy' then how come someone I know was 'let off' a serious prison sentence ( which he fucking well deserved) because his father and the judge did some stupid little signal to each other??/

[complexnumber]

Wouldn't it be nice if a few people showed a bit of gratitude to OMC for opening up and answering all questions thrown at him?

IMO some of the questions seem to be fairly hostile, however the answers have been polite, considered and to the point.

(No, I am not a Mason and have never known one)

[LynetteScavo]

OneMoreChap, it may not by your (Masons) issue what religion a memberis, but I'm pretty sure the Catholic church wouldn't be too impressed with with a Catholic being a mason...and JS has a papal knighthood, doesn't he?

[LineRunner]

He said, 'Ask away.....'.

[DreamsTurnToGoldDust]

Thanks OMC.

[LineRunner]

Talking of which, does anyone know how much the average lodge fees are?

[Latara]

There is a well known worldwide Group that is bigger than the Masons...

The Group members have secret meeting places where they carry out their terrible activities.
They have certain greetings & signs recognised only by other Group members.
Their activities are known to threaten lives; cause disease & death throughout this planet.

There are members of this Group networking in every type of private business & financial service; in the world's Police forces, Armed Forces, hospitals, school staff rooms; neighbourhoods.
Every terrorist group; criminal gang & secret service will be infiltrated by members of this group.

There will be members in your very own street or block of flats; in your local pub & in every single Court & every Council in this land. Political parties, trade unions & the media are controlled by many of the Group members.

Only a tiny handful of religious groups are safe from infiltration; but even the purest person can be tempted into the evil that is.....

Oh sorry; got to answer the phone; let you know later! :)

[garlicbutty]

It's interesting to read this thread. Thanks for volunteering, OMC, and thanks also to those who've posted real-life instances.

I think the issue gets twisted by those who see the Masons as generating favouritism - which I'm sure it does to a degree, having started life as an exclusive trade guild - where the real problem is the high proportion of decision-makers who are prepared to abuse network relationships on a quid pro quo basis. The same people would seek out powerful networks whether this one existed or not, and would seek to set up similarly biased exchanges of favours.

Since freemasons exist and have, for centuries, counted the world's most powerful men amongst their numbers, they're the obvious network of choice for such (male) people. The fact they gravitate there and, naturally for them, seek to promote the closed favour bank, makes the Masons a great network for power brokers. If there were no freemason network, they'd be doing the same through their golf club (as, indeed, they do); their church; dining & drinking clubs or the mafia.

Every society is only the sum of its members. Outlawing the freemasons would fail, even if it were desirable. I do, however, think it would be better for the movement's image if it published details of its membership structure & numbers, finances and activities. It could, as a private club, require disclosure of its more senior members.

The fact that it still resists transparency does seem to indicate it has plenty to hide. Of course there are conspiracies! They make the world go round. But they shouldn't be allowed to determine public policies and their execution; not in this day and age. If Masons want to insist they don't exert undue influence, they should prove they mean it.

Since they won't, I draw the obvious conclusion ... and would like to see some sort of legal compulsion to disclose.

[garlicbutty]

LineRunner, only about £100 a year. You have to fork out for robes and dinners, etc, plus make meaningful charity contributions.

[amillionyears]

OneMoreChap, Freemasons give jobs to other freemasons,when often other candidates are more suitable.
This is a test question.Are you going to agree.

,

[garlicbutty]

I'm not trying to interrupt your question, amillion, as it's important.
I don't, however, think network favouritism is Always Bad.
When a friend refers a client to me, I don't tell the client to talk to some other suppliers before hiring me!
But if the friend referred a project I found unsuitable/immoral/illegal, I'd turn it down.
My friend might then be cross and stop recommending me.
If, instead of one friend, an entire group of influential people were to get cross with me, I might have to think twice before turning down distasteful work. They could destroy my life if they were very cross.
So this is where power networks get interesting ...

[Spuddybean]

Better - what do you mean by vetting? checking my criminal record? WHat would they be looking for?

They never even asked DP my name but i suppose they could have had him tailed or something! Altho i'm sure they really don't give a shit and would have better things to do with their time.

[amillionyears]

OneMoreChap,I will answer my own question.
The answer is yes.
fwiw,I know or know of some pretty high up ones.
1 may not have had that much influence on society,the other one definitely has.