to think that Freemasonry should not be allowed to exist?

[StickMeToTheMan]

... or that members should declare their membership - especially those in positions of power - police, SS, politicians etc?

I am just flabbergasted that this is allowed in this day and age. Take a look at the JS scandal and the potential involvement of the masons, and surely no-one can dispute that this old boy network is dangerously shady.

Can anyone explain to me what it is really for, and if membership to any secret society is justifiable in this day and age?

AIBU?

(Namechanged as have been discussing on FB)

[GoldShip]

OP it would seem you haven't really got anything on why they should, except because of your curiosity.

That isn't a valid reason why someone should have to disclose something to you

[GoldShip]

Why wouldn't they support their own OP

[Spuddybean]

Mardybra - there is no hocus pocus or anything of the sort at DPs group (which is the main one in central london). Perhaps what it was founded on but it appears to have evolved into just a club for like minded professions. Maybe it's different in the US i don't know.

[McPhee]

Yes I do stick

[Doodlekitty]

And as to loyalty, part of the 'oath' is that your family, financial stability and job should be put first. Naturally there will be members who ignore that, as there are rule breakers everywhere, but that is defo in there.

[DreamsTurnToGoldDust]

Oh, id the masons for woman as well, I didnt realise, thought it was just men. I know my uncle for one, but that was about 1 million years ago.

[aldiwhore]

I don't even care that its a 'male only' club... because if there is a female only club, and if they'd want me, and I wanted to join them, I don't see why I shouldn't be 'allowed'.

Even though I rather like sexual mingling... not sure that's what I am meaning to say!!

[StickMeToTheMan]

Alsi, I think you are missing my point about Savile's links.

JS was close to a great number of massively influential figures, including Ted Heath (mason), Ronnie Kray (mason), Peter Sutcliffe (mason), Denis Thatcher (mason).

There were known to be high freemasons in the exec of the BBC and social services, as well as the police.

Do you guys really think it was coincidence that people were forbidden from challenging these rumours?

[Doodlekitty]

I think it's more likely to be because they were powerful people for other reasons than be due to the fact that they all pranced about in daft outfits once a month.

[FredFredGeorge]

If you want an open register of anyone influential and what clubs they're members of, then that is perhaps not unreasonable, but people are just as likely to do improper things because of their membership of a bridge club or S&M dungeon, or the people they went to school with as they are of the masons.

So YABU to focus on the Masons.

In the interest of disclosure, I am a member of both a running and cycling club.

[mrsminerva]

Stick do you have sources for that list of people being masons?

[GoldShip]

They could have also all been on the organ donor list but that doesn't mean we should name all the people on that.

[LineRunner]

There are voting patterns on my local council that might appear to indicate that the (male) Freemasons stick together, irrespective of any other consideration.

When this is about stuff like licensing lap dancing clubs, I think it matters a hell of a lot.

In fact when I finally get my MN Blog up and running I might write about it.

[StickMeToTheMan]

Doodle, just because they raise money for charity and give bears to sick kids (I have four of those ugly bears in this house) doesn't really explain their shady reputation, does it?

[Doodlekitty]

No stick, people choosing to only look at certain members, outdated practises which have changed, and ignore certain facts about them explains what you interpret as a 'shady reputation'

And perhaps if you find the bears so distasteful you could donate them to charity yourself

[StickMeToTheMan]

Without giving away too much personal info Line, I used to be a councillor and know for a fact that what you say is true. Also, most local charities and organisations have council-nominated members, and usually the known masons will vote one way. There are also many suspected masons, who refuse to disclose one way or another. I have seen first hand examples of their power being abused in local politics.

[JaxTellerIsMyFriend]

hahaha this made me laugh! It is NOT a secret society. You can find out anything you want about masonic rituals by googling.

There is a whole load of nonsense about Masons.

If I were you OP I would be worrying about other things in this world than Masons!

[Spuddybean]

I think by having a large number of members you would find coincidences. I think there is a problem with the data set you are using. The law of large numbers and selection bias make this scientifically invalid. You have taken a large group of people over a long period of time and chosen a few to prove a point and therefore to apply to the whole group.

Are you suggesting the police didn't arrest Peter Sutcliffe earlier because he was a mason?

[DreamsTurnToGoldDust]

Im sure the Masons now is a nice little club for men to mingle, do things like charity etc but I guess in the past if men of profession and influence only were in a club that was not talked with club handshakes (did they or is that just a rumour?) then it would naturally raise suspision.

I imagine today its a very open environment.

[LineRunner]

That's interesting, StickMeToTheMan. I've often wondered too why lots of councillors won't say one way or another. If it's so harmless, why not admit it?

[StickMeToTheMan]

No Spuddy.

I'm suggesting it's a bit odd that Sutcliffe (mason), who lived close to Savile (mason) murdered one of his victims outside Savile's house. Also odd that later, Savile was chosen (on what basis?!!) to be an advisor to Broadmoor, where he spent lots of time with his friends Sutcliffe and Kray. Odd.

[garlicbutty]

Dreams - "Why can't women be freemasons?"
Metropolitan Grand Lodge, London
"They can! Freemasonry started as a male-only movement, in keeping with the social conditions of centuries ago, and we see no particular reason to change that. But in the early 20th century women established Masonic organisations for themselves. We do not visit each other?s Lodges but they sometimes use our meeting-places. Some women Masons are even married to our members!"

You can be a woman freemason but it only gives you access to the women's mason network, not the men's, apparently. Oh, and you can even marry a Mason! Gosh!

[Spuddybean]

But Linerunner, isn't it also likely that those who are in the same club also have like minded ideas about other things. For example if i was in an all womens socialist club, as well as being on the council, which also happened to have other members of the club as councillors, that without any orchestration we would also vote the same way on matters?

The point with all clubs/networks is that; like likes like, and like likes what like finds.

[FredFredGeorge]

So a load of middle aged professional men on the local council who have similar views on local issues end up in the same club? That's hardly surprising is it? Perhaps if you told me the middle aged professional men and the 18 year old layabout pot heads voted identically on issues because of a secret society then I might think it surprising.

People with similar views are members of the same clubs - particularly if they're the sort of people who like clubs - which I think applies to a councillor for sure.

[StickMeToTheMan]

No, though Spuddy.

I can't go into great detail but I could give you a fair few examples of strange decisions being made across political divides by known members and suspected members, that were quite left-field as far as everyone else was concerned. Does that make sense?

Although I believe they are not supposed to discuss politics or religion at lodge, I don't believe this to be the case. I am sure that many important decisions have been made behind closed doors well before proper debate commenced.