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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to think that Freemasonry should not be allowed to exist?

573 replies

StickMeToTheMan · 06/10/2012 14:59

... or that members should declare their membership - especially those in positions of power - police, SS, politicians etc?

I am just flabbergasted that this is allowed in this day and age. Take a look at the JS scandal and the potential involvement of the masons, and surely no-one can dispute that this old boy network is dangerously shady.

Can anyone explain to me what it is really for, and if membership to any secret society is justifiable in this day and age?

AIBU?

(Namechanged as have been discussing on FB)

OP posts:
perceptionreality · 07/10/2012 11:24

YANBU

This organisation doesn't sound good to me and quite often I've heard that ritual sacrifices are involved in FM from people who had family members involved.

How can anyone think charity work alone proves they are harmless?

MardyBra · 07/10/2012 11:40

Jimmy Savile did lots of charity work.

OhlimpPricks · 07/10/2012 11:44

So OP, if you categorise all Freemasons because supposedly JS was one, do you also assume that everyone who raises money for charity is a paedophile?

My DF, GF, etc are/were Freemasons. All of you who have 'heard from a friend' or 'know' that little signals were sent, or 'a friend told you' , that's all you have base your sneering opinions on.

The funniest thing? The majority of Freemasons do not really give a shiny shite what you think. So sneer away, cast your aspertions as much as you like. It's a subject you know nothing about, and your ignorance and fear drive your behaviour. The Freemasons carry on regardless, raising money for charity and doing good. Carry on shouting.....

Original poster
StickMeToTheMan · 07/10/2012 11:58

Read your post Ohlimp, and scan for irony.

OP posts:
perceptionreality · 07/10/2012 12:00

If something is good, honourable and completely above board then there should be no reason to keep secrets about it imo. Same principle with scientology.

MrsjREwing · 07/10/2012 12:00

JS used his good works and raising money for charity as a cover.

MardyBra · 07/10/2012 12:04

You beat me to it with the irony comment Op. Of course, OhLimp's second hand testimonies from friends and family bears so much more weight than testimony from anyone else's friends or family.

amillionyears · 07/10/2012 12:29

CoteD'Azur.
I dont know about lodges.
I dont know about freemasonary.

I do know freemasons.
An area not yet talked about is transport.

LineRunner · 07/10/2012 12:50

Sorry been offline all morning - just to go back to the Planning committee issue.

Yes, it is perfectly normal for councillors on the Planning Committee to 'stand down' if they know an applicant, or for them to have previously sought legal advice about serving on the Committee if it involves anyone they know (including if one of the applicants/advisors/deputations is someone known to them).

I sit through lots of Planning Meetings for one of my jobs and I have never heard any of the masons mention being masons.

If it's so 'benign' why do'lt they voluntarily list it on their declaration of interests? That would be a helpful pro-active step for a truly harmless Freemasonry movement.

MrsjREwing · 07/10/2012 13:05

I must go and put some money in a charity box, apparently it makes me a wonderful person.

LineRunner · 07/10/2012 13:18

MrsJ, you might also be able to help get a Planning Application through, without letting on it's a big boost for one of your mates.

LynetteScavo · 07/10/2012 13:31

I get the secret society bit.

I get the sticking up covering upfor your friends bit.

I get the odd rituals bit.

I get the raising money for charity bit.

What I don't get is that members must believe in a deity, any deity, but they aren't a religion. Why won't they accept atheists?

Original poster
StickMeToTheMan · 07/10/2012 13:35

Transport? Confused

OP posts:
WkdSM · 07/10/2012 13:45

I am a woman and a freemason - yes the ladies freemasons have a separate headquarters and are run separately from the men (for over 100 years I believe) - but AFAIK doesn't the womens professional golf association govern itself rather than the mens PGA? My DH is a freemason and we use the same ritual. We can't attend each others meetings just like a woman can't play in a mans golf match and vice versa. Would not want to - I think us ladies are probably far better at ritual than the men!!

Yes to some people the ritual is silly - just like to some people being in an amateur dramatics group would seem silly. The ritual is used to explain how we should strive to live a more moral life - and uses stories to illustrate this. Some people take this more seriously than others (as in any group).

On the subject of people who have abused their position whether in a planning committee or as a paedophile - unfortunately you will find this in almost any group. There have been paedophile priests and teachers - and people who have covered up or ignored it - but not all teachers and priests have done this or would condone it. Same with freemasons.

I have found the freemasons to be the most inclusive group of people I have met - you can't be an aetheist (because you have to believe in a higher power than yourself) - but it does not matter whether you are unemployed or a CEO - a millionaire or struggling to get by - in lodge you are all equal.

On the Satanic side - some of this is from a professed hoax years ago - a chap wrote a book with lots of false stories about freemasonry deliberately to see how gullible people could be - it worked and he then came clean and said it was all made up - unfortunately the stories he told are now circulated as truth. The thing about worshipping goats - in freemasons texts they do not use the full words but shorten them - thus the use of The God of All Things (so as to include all forms of higher being so as to be inclusive) was written as the GOAT - so some people take this to mean we pray to a goat (or as the joke goes - have sex with a goat - you have to be high up to get the pretty goat)

I suspect that some people will say that I am not 'high' enough up to know that I am really a member of a society planning wold domination. Kind of wish I was - that would be quite exciting.

For the record - my DH declared he was a freemason when he went for a job with a Catholic founded institution - and one of the interviewing panel then said - oops - so am I - but he had not mentioned his own membership when accepting his job as he had not considered it any more relevant than belonging to the local round table.

If you have any questions I will try and answer them but TOC has been doing an excellent job!

WkdSM · 07/10/2012 13:50

SMTTM

You have to promise to try and live your life to a certain moral code (no different to most major religions - helping others, doing no harm etc) and to make this promise you have to swear on / to something you believe to be bigger than yourselves. It is a bit like religious marriage ceremony as opposed to a civil ceremony - a lot of vicars / priests will not marry you in church if you don't believe in God.

MrsjREwing · 07/10/2012 13:59

I had never heard about the goat thing, interesting how GOAT got twisted like that.

IneedAsockamnesty · 07/10/2012 14:09

wkdsm in a short while your about to get told you dont exist,that your not a real mason that you cant possible be because shock horror your a woman. so you must be in a totally different compleatly sepperate organisation you just dont know it. Grin

ThreadWatcher · 07/10/2012 14:10

I think this thread is bizarre and funny in a scary kind of way Confused

I think the Freemasons on this thread (or those happy to defend it) are either ignorant/naive of what goes on. Or part of the smokescreen to pretend it isn't the sinister organisation it really is.

I know little about it from personal experience but nothing I have read so far will convince me it's a good thing.
Both my grandfathers were masons - the multitude that turned up for a funeral were definitely scary.

Whilst I was pregnant with our first, my dh was forced out of his job and the tied house we lived in, by masons. They were callous, unpleasant and hypocritical. But hey they must have been alright because they did 'good works' Hmm

ThreadWatcher · 07/10/2012 14:13

WkdSM - please tell us/me the author and name of the book?

bureni · 07/10/2012 14:53

The Goat

bureni · 07/10/2012 14:57

The Goat is still alive and kicking in the Orange order today Grinthis song is very well known in Ulster.

WkdSM · 07/10/2012 14:57

Yep - I do belong to a separate organisation - The Order of Women's Freemasons - I can't work out how to link but you can look it up. We meet in the same room as the men, and abide by the same promises.

The book Palladium was by Leo Taxil written in 1889 - born as Gabriel Jogand-Pages in 1854, he was a professional con artist. In 1897 he revealed it as a hoax - it was primarily written to wind up the Catholic Church (whom he also had a grudge against) - which it did. He had a good laugh at how seriously people took it and how willing they were to believe all sorts of nonsense. he also earnt money off of the book sales - as of now, the more scandal / salacious gossip the more papers sell!

If you want to know a bit more, a good starting point is 'Freemasonry for Dummies' - yes the same series as PC for Dummies etc. A bit simplistic and Americanised but has some basic information and history.

Threadwatcher - I am so sorry if you have had a horrible experience. I totally understand if you have been treated unfairly that you feel agreived, and obviously I don't know any of the details, but going to a funeral is a mark of respect for that person and their families. If your grandfathers were known and well liked then a lot of perople would turn up. Masons or not. I would find it lovely if the bridge club or the golf club friends my gransparents had turned up for their funeral.

I can assure you all that I exist and I am not a smokescreen.

Viviennemary · 07/10/2012 15:01

I think everybody should have to declare their membership. This getting a job because you're a Freemason is just not on.

bureni · 07/10/2012 15:04

Most jobs are handed out on a "Who you know" not "What you know" basis nowadays, being a mason makes no difference really.

LesleyPumpshaft · 07/10/2012 15:04

Freemasonry and Satanism?

I'm not a Freemason, but I have a pretty good idea about where Freemasonry is coming from, and it's not anything like that.