to think that Freemasonry should not be allowed to exist?

[StickMeToTheMan]

... or that members should declare their membership - especially those in positions of power - police, SS, politicians etc?

I am just flabbergasted that this is allowed in this day and age. Take a look at the JS scandal and the potential involvement of the masons, and surely no-one can dispute that this old boy network is dangerously shady.

Can anyone explain to me what it is really for, and if membership to any secret society is justifiable in this day and age?

AIBU?

(Namechanged as have been discussing on FB)

And in case you are all wondering why Freemasons declare it to the world, it is because of the ignorant paranoia of villagers with pitchforks like some on this thread.

Cote, maybe the Mason you know, or you yourself are just not high up enough in the food chain to know what it's actually about? It is a very secretive organisation, after all.

Communing with Satan?? My Grandfather and Father were very involved with their Methodist church, devoutly religious. My DBro couldn't join the Masons because he was an outspoken atheist - I don't know whether its changed since then, but at that time belief in a deity was obligatory.

Hilarious how many people claim to know something about this when their ignorance shines through everything they post.

auntmargaret - I assure you that is not the case.

Yes, 'villagers with pitchforks' sums it up nicely - "I don't understand it, and am excluded from it, so it must be stopped immediately". It confers no more advantage than belonging to the Rotary Club, tennis club, local church - you make like minded friends.

One of the problems on this thread is that everyone seems to think that there is only one Grand Lodge - where no women and atheists are allowed.

There are mixed lodges, as well as fully-legitimate and recognised women Freemasons with their own female Masters and Grand Masters up to 33rd degree. Just not in the Grand Lodge of England.

Sounds a wee bit paranoid and defensive to me. Almost as if you have something to hide.

adeucalione - your last post sums it up perfectly IMO.

And "villagers with pitchforks" is spot on. Widespread myth and ignorance.

CoteDAzur only knows stuff about lodges.

And amillionyears knows everything about me, apparently

I asked you a question before, amillionyears.

What exactly do you know about Freemasonry?

cote. I fully admit that i know little about freemasonry because it is a secretive society. I could research it on th net, but frankly I cba. However, unless there is some transparency, then threads like this will inevitably result in a circular argument, something like this:

"The masons are a dodgy secretive society."
"No, they're not. You know nothing about them."
"Too right. We know nothing about them apart from second hand rumours That's why it stinks of dodgy."
"but they're good because of this, this and this (OneMoreChap style)"
"Well we only have your word on this because they're secretive. We can't make a judgement."
"but they're good because of this, this and this (OneMoreChap style)"
"Well we only have your word on this because they're secretive. We can't make a judgement."
And so on...

C'mon Masons. Open the doors and let a documentary crew in. I vote for Louis Theroux.

Auntmargaret - people do tend to get defensive when, for the billionth time, they have to listen to all sorts of utter crap spouted about either themselves or the people they love.

I don't know what you do in your spare time, or what your DH does, but maybe you would get defensive if you/he were accused of devil worshipping and other general wickedness when you absolutely know it to be lies and urban myth.

And just when you think you've exploded every bit of ignorant misinformation some twit comes on to say that you don't know anything because you're just not important enough, because they've read Dan Brown and know the real truth.

aeduc. I refer you to my posts above yours.

The duke of Kent is the grand master of the united great lodge uk wide.

There are obviously going to be affiliated groups and other lodges.

All I know is what I have been told and seen for myself. He was a very high up Freemason and also member of the knights Templar (which is what the mitre hat was for)

he did have both the Freemasons cloak with leather apron which he wore and e definitley had a mitre hat which was completely different too. He has been dead for over 20 years and would have been partaking in these things in the London area over 40 years ago.

Things do change.

That's the thing, members of other organisations are compelled to disclose for public jobs such as police or council. Members of trade unions have to, and any management or trusteeship of any other organisation. Not the masons though. Why?

MardyBra - just because you 'cba to look it up on the Internet' doesn't mean that all of their so-called secrets aren't there for anyone who can be arsed to look up.

So you can either listen to the Masons on this thread, who are answering questions, or do some Internet research for yourself - and if you really cba well then you can't really complain about all the secrets.

I tend to think that, as a rule, groups will get together, people will benefit from these links, and that freemasonry might be one of the social structures that facilitates this sort of behaviour. I don't know much about the masons at all, but obviously this could be possible, and whether it happens is up for debate.

I don't think it's fair, but not sure how you stop it. Do agree though that in an ideal world one would be made to declare anything that affect ability to be impartial - so if making a decision on a fellow Freemasons planning, as well as if you are making a decision about someone you play golf with for example.

There have been some people here with seemingly no axe to grind who have said things from first hand experience that seem to have been dismissed by members/family of members as rubbish because it doesn't fit with your argument. Why is their experience less valid than yours? Am thinking particularly of the MNer whose DH was out under pressure to join.....

The thing is, adeu, I have been looking up on the internet. There are a smattering of people like you who say it is all benign, then thousands of sites that claim that it is anything but. Internet searching is not helping win me over to be honest.

I could look up the "secrets" but I wouldn't know which websites are true and which are speculation because it is a "society with secrets". That's why I cba.

Oh look it's a circular argument again.

Binky, the problem with the planning (for example) disclosures is that being a mason isn't like playing golf with someone.

If I were to sit on a planning committee and the application to be discussed was my house, or that of a close relative, I would declare a prejudicial interest, would leave the room and not have the ability to vote.
If it were of a friend (or golf partner), I would declare a personal interest. I would not leave the room and could vote, but my interest would be noted and scrutinised.
If I were a mason, knew the applicant was a mason but they weren't a close friend, I wouldn't (presumably) feel compelled to disclose any interest at all, however we would have pledged a blood tie to one another.
If they genuinely see themselves as a 'brotherhood', then surely the rules of prejudicial interest should come into play?

Of course this sort of link should be disclosed, even when the members do not actually know each other well.

Oh and to add: 2 doors down from where I live is a Masonic lodge for the local area.
The gentleman meet up every week or so.

They do not wear anything like what my GF had. They just dress smartly. I haven't seen any of them with a leather apron or cloak or shawl.

My GF cloak/robes is still kept at my parents house, it hasn't been worn for over 40 years, but its there and I have seen it.
So I would rather people didn't start assuming I'm a lier as all I have done is repeat what I have been told/ seen.
He would have been doing it thought the Second World War, and it was e cause of his free mason work that he wasn't sent to war.

Even though I was very close to this person he didn't talk about it to me.
Ben though I am close to my DM and she read the notes e made in his diary, she wouldn't tell me what was in there.

Knowing the little I know, is enough to know that it does good in the community, big people do use it to get to high places fast, and there are many negatives that they don't like you to know.

There was a blog started a while ago by an American woman who was wife of a Freemason and was divorcing him because of if.
She and a host of other women came out and were saying all sorts of ba things about what the masons are and do.

I for one hope that it was untrue as I would never want my GF associated with that kind of behaviour.
He was one of the most respected men IMO and I wouldn't want that thought to be spoilt.

stickme I agree. I meant that you should be compelled to declare it for those reasons. Sorry if not clear.

This is a good website if you are interested in finding out notable figures an famous people who have been. Member of the united grand Freemasons of uk:

www.ugle.org.uk/what-is-masonry/

JS not on the list though