Men are bad ladies are good

[Joiningthegang]

My 3dc had a school assembly where they talked about what to do if you get lost.

Please bear in mind this is the translated by the kids version.

If they get lost they should find a lady - preferably who has children, then other ladies, then men, because they arcane be bad.

Aibu to be cross that my boys aged 6 and 4 are being given negative messages about being male. I am also cross that this sounds like "stranger danger" again when children are far more at risk from non-strangers.

Sooooo - aibu to send an email to the head (and suggestions of how to say it much appreciated.

Right, crowd of 100 people. And one lost child. 90 of them are normal, 10 (prob an overestimate) 'dodgy'. Normal people have about a 0.5 chance of offering help, dodgy lot are certain to. I realise these are all assumptions but illustrate my point.

Child picks a person to ask for help. 90% chance of picking a normal person.

55 people come forward to offer help. 45 of them are half of thr 90 'normal' lot, plus all the dodgy ones. Now, chances are 10 in 55 or about 18 percent that child is helped by dodgy person.

Feel free to correct the maths!

I think no matter what we tell our children to do in theory, when they are lost, scared and upset they will accept help from the first person - man or woman - who tells them everything will be ok.

I mean, how often is there a police officer on hand? I'd say very rarely, where I live anyway.

I think the shop assistant is a good option, my dd is only 2 and she recognises shops. Then anyone with a pram/child.

OneMoreChap

It's not self-contradictory at all. It's just complicated.

As it happens, I'd offer to help, and, in fact, in the past I have done exactly that.
Nevertheless, I might advise my child to be suspicious of anyone volunteering help.

The point is you know that you are not dodgy. Some random stranger. . . all you know is the statistics.

If you want to help and feel uncomfortable, just call the fuzz.

i say 'find a mummy with children' maybe i should have said daddy as well, but hey. I also put a piece of paper in my ds (5) pocket with a note and my number on, then the person they find can ring me, not every time we go out btw, just in busy, likely to get lost places, it puts my mind at rest. Had a talk with him today about going off with ANYONE though, without talking to me first. events lately are enough to scare me to bloody death :(

I've only read the OP, so forgive me if I repeat what someone else has said.

The assembly wasn't "men are bad", it was giving the best advice on how lost children should ask for help. And according to crime-specialist Gavin de Becker, YES, a child SHOULD statistically ask a woman (pref. with children) for help as these are statistically the safest people.

To get further into it - a child should also ask someone for help rather than wait to be approached. Statistically again, we are all VERY unlikely to approch a dangerous person, because we have ways of screening them, but we are VERY likely to be approached by a dangerous person, because dangerous people prey on the obviously lost and vulnerable. So ask your children to be proactive about seeking help.

Also, no, it's not wise to tell children to ask for help from people in uniform. Statistically AGAIN, people who choose "security" jobs (like bouncers, doormen, etc) have a higher rate of prison-convictions than those who don't. Children often mistake people in uniforms (like security uniforms) for policemen.

Read this book before you go sending off shouty emails.

The comment about the difficulty in finding a police officer is very valid.

Yes, I worry about thaat, I worry ds would become fixated on that, crossing roads etc to do so.

" Statistically again, we are all VERY unlikely to approch a dangerous person, because we have ways of screening them, but we are VERY likely to be approached by a dangerous person "

If you want to be accurate - statistically a child is VERY unlikely to be approached by a "dangerous person"

It's actually never occurred to me to tell DS (who is now nearly7) to find a woman or a mummy. I have always told him to tell a member of staff. I can't imagine a situation where he would be on his own somewhere that didn't have staff? No boubt someone is now going to disabuse me of my naivety!

BobsDaddy I've offered help in the past as well. Now, if my stats is correct, that made me much more likely, in the eyes of an observer, to be dodgy. Did I care? No. I know I'm not dodgy, so I helped. What's the big deal?

InfinityWelcomesCarefulDrivers
Yeah, that's the sort of thing. Kind of like a GCSE maths question. As you say, the numbers will be different, obviously.

Kew I was thinking out and about, walking though town. Would you expect your ds to go into a shop?
(genuine q, this is one of the situations where I'm trying to work out what I should tell him to do)

Pendeen
If you want to be accurate - statistically a child is VERY unlikely to be approached by a "dangerous person" but whatever the danger... we must reduce it further. Shroud waving.

Put reins on the kid and that will help.

There was a story in the papers a few years back.

A man driving along a road saw a lone toddler by the road. He didn't stop as he thought he'd be seen as a child abductor.

The child wandered into someone's garden and drowned in the duck pond.

AnuvvaMuvva
Cheers. I wouldn't have guessed the uniform bit. Interesting.

If you can't see the problem with what you are saying MrsBethel then nothing that I say will change your mind.

But I shall try anyway. You are a woman (I guess from the Mrs) and as such you have removed yourself as a danger in the scenario that you have presented. You are portraying that men who offer to help are more likely to be dodgy. Which means that by implication you are implying that I am dodgy. Something I find to be horridly offensive and unpleasant.

I also think that your perception that dodgy people are more likely to help is just plain wrong. The reason that we are discussing this is because it is so rare an occurance for a child to be snatched that it has been in the mainstream news for the last few days. Think about the number of times that children get lost and don't get snatched every single day. Our society is not that screwed up and there are not gangs of child-snatching paedos poised waiting on every street corner ready to take a child that has a wandered off. But that is the picture that you are painting.

where we have been in crowded situations out and about - we went up to the mall to see the Olympics speed walking I insisted he hold my hand the whole time !

But yes I suppose I would tell him to go into a shop.

I think find someone with children is a better message.

" dodgy people are more likely to help is just plain wrong"
You believe that ans you may be right but do you have evidence o back it up?
Might it not just be that dodgy people are in such a minority (my ten percent was q huge over estimate, I believe) that by chance they just aren't in the vicinity when a lost child goes wandering, until they are discovered by Mr or Mrs or ms normal?

and re "men are likely to be more dodgy" I have to weigh up the likelihood of

a) my son getting lost AND
b) approaching a man for help AND
c) that man being dangerous to him in some way

against the long term but subtle damage of telling my son that he is growing up into something that shouldn't be trusted with children.

Now that my lack of foresight has been pointed out on this thread - I would probably discuss with DS but certainly wouldn't go further than telling him that first go to a member of staff and if none a family with children (on the basis that someone in a family would know what to do).

Kew I struggle with that. Because in general my advice is stay where you are! Within the confines of a busy shop, walking tk the till seems like a minor point but to take himself from the street where I'd be lookj g for him into a buillding seems counter intuitive. But you could be right.

" a) my son getting lost AND b) approaching a man for help AND c) that man being dangerous to him in some way

against the long term but subtle damage of telling my son that he is growing up into something that shouldn't be trusted with children"

Completely agree. I'd rather tell ds to approach a man with children than a woman on her own. Ironically, the man whi is being held for aprils murder has children. There's no sense in it. I'm holding on to the fact that the vast majority of men and women would not harm a child deliberately.

BobsDaddy
Do you think I should put my children at a greater risk, in order not to offend you?

A randomly selected man is more likely to be a nonce than a randomly selected woman. Fact.
Yes, it is all very rare. Thank God. But so what?

Those who are so against men helping/being approach if your child was lost and upset would you rather men walked past than stopping to help?

Of course encouraging approaching staff/families is the sensible first step but to pass a message of don't talk to strange men doesn't really work does it?

Ok tell children not to get into a car or wander off with any lone adult but don't stop them asking for help if needed.

As I said, I'm not going to convince you or change your mind from your position. I don't personally care whether you offend me or not, although I do find your stance offensive and a bit silly.

However, what you are doing is saying to your children than men are dangerous and untrustworthy. Children don't really understand subtleties, so they will perceive all men as dangerous and untrustworthy. What a wonderful message to give to a young child.

I suggest that it would be a better thing to say to your children "On no account go anyway with anyone who approaches you, but if someone asks if you are ok then to be honest with them".

anyway=anywhere in that last sentence, sorry.